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Heads, Opinions?
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Posted by: StoneFox

I need opinions guys.

I'm kinda leaning twards the Vic. Jr. heads, but The Canfields look good as well but Im not sure if they work with stock style headers and Intakes or do they need something special. The AFR 205, are nice, but a bit out of my price range.

Ive had two sets of TFS heads drop valves on me, so I dont want those again.

Posted by: Grape Ape

How about AFR 185's? I'm not sure anymore, but I think the Canfields will bolt right up to existing parts. Of course, you're surely using aftermarket headers and intake anyway, so just be sure they match before you buy. Vic Jr's are SERIOUS! If you want 500hp, they'll be fine, but 185's are likely adequate too. Check for piston to valve clearance for your application though. This may make your decision easier. I like my TFS heads, but if you've had trouble twice, I see why you'd want something different now.

Posted by: KJ

go with teh vic jr youll never be sorry

Posted by: StoneFox

I think the 185s are going to be a bit to small. I have plans to put together solid roller, nitrous 408 in the next couple of years, and I want to get a set of heads that will support it.

The 351 I'm putting togther now is going to be right at 11:1 with a solid flat tappet cam.

Posted by: Grape Ape

Stock Vic Jr's won't be ready for a solid build of that nature. Just keep that in mind. Having a good foundation is a good step, but you'll need to modify those for a strong 408. Well, maybe not "need" to, but you'll want to for sure. 185's can be ported too, but I'd just suffer the 205's until the time comes for the 408. Ford has a fairly new offering too, but I can't think of the name right now. Supposedly it's way up there with the high enders.

Posted by: StoneFox

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grape Ape


	Stock Vic Jr's won't be ready for a solid build of that nature. Just keep that in mind. Having a good foundation is a good step, but you'll need to modify those for a strong 408. Well, maybe not "need" to, but you'll want to for sure. 185's can be ported too, but I'd just suffer the 205's until the time comes for the 408. Ford has a fairly new offering too, but I can't think of the name right now. Supposedly it's way up there with the high enders.

No Doubt, Whichever heads I decide on is going to be worked on before they go on the stroker motor. If I could afford the 205's I would pick them up in a hurry, but $1800 to $2000 is a bit out of my range.

I can get the Vic Jrs for about $1300, and the CNC Chamber Canfields are $1200.

Thanks for the replys

Posted by: Grape Ape

The Canfields won't do for a strong 408. They're good heads, but won't flow enough with any power adder on an engine with that many cubes.

Posted by: StoneFox

Well, those are out

Posted by: Grape Ape

There's always Brodix! hehehehe

Posted by: Tang

Jegs has the 225's for around $2000, go for those

AFR is the shiznit, hands down. Edelbrock heads are past news now. They were nice when they first came out, because not that many companies was making the Ford heads. But now that everybody is in the game, Edelbrock is dropping further and further back. Dont you have to buy a Jessel rocker system to use the Vic heads ?

Posted by: VETTKLR

AFR 225's is what I'd put on my 11:1 408

p.s. Pick your cam out yet? If not, I highly reccomend Jay Allen of www.camshaftinnovations.com

Posted by: StoneFox

Thanks for the link KLR. Ill deffinantly check them out.

Like I said the AFR's are out of my price range right now. I think I'm gonna go ahead and use the Vic Jrs unless anybody knows where I can get a new set of Pro Topline 215s with the 58cc combustion chamber. Those were my first choice but they fucked around and went out of buisness. Its gonna be a good while before I start on my stroker engine, and the Vics ar gonna have plenty of work done before they go on it.

Posted by: Grape Ape

AFR 225's are outstanding, out of the box. They can't be made to outflow TFS R's all out, but 95% of us will never have that concern anyway. They're typically less expensive to use because they don't "require" as many changes as the R's and some other heads, and they actually cost less than many other brands.

AFR 225's are better than many Edelbrock offerings, but there are some good matchups to be seen. The Edelbrock gets too expensive in that range though. They're better than Brodix and Canfield, and Ford GT40's and old Edelbrocks and so forth, while not costing as much in some cases. 205's are pretty good though, and cost less than 225's almost everywhere. They'll surely support 500hp too.

Here's a thought. Use AFR 165 or 185's now and sell them when your 408 is ready for the 225's, 205's or whatever else you want.

That's gotta help absorb cost while giving you the "head you need" in the meantime.

Posted by: VETTKLR

Does Tooley still do other heads since Trick Flow bought him?

www.totalengineairflow.com ported a set of Vic Jr's for a SC'd 351 buddy of mine. He digs the hell out of them.

No matter what combo you go with, get the custom Solid Flat from Jay.

Custom bumpstick will do wonders for any combo. I should have got one when I first built my 408.

Posted by: Grape Ape

Hmmm... From the looks of the contact page, Brian simply moved to Akron. Seems like an odd thing, but it clearly states Brian Tooley is the owner, and gives the impression he's in the TFS zone. But TFS' address is in Tallmadge, not Akron. The phone numbers and addresses don't match, unless TFS hasn't made the changes to it's own website. No doubt about them being within just 20 miles or so of each other.

PS My cam was designed by Keith Craft and worked very well for a street driver. Not all that large, but very effective indeed. I had to call DompCams(who makes it for him) and give them my known information to get the part number, which I promptly lost.

They told me it's on their shelf, but only for him or his customers who use it. It isn't listed on the cams page at all, which is why I asked for the number. Anyway, I was happy with it.

Posted by: StoneFox

I'v got a Doug Herbert solid flat tappet cam for the 351 I have now. 225,235@50 .500, .525 lift 112 lobe center. It pulled pretty damn hard on the bottom to mid range in a 9.5:1 engine. Im going to use it again and see how it does with more compression, and a diffrent set of heads.

Posted by: VETTKLR

hell yeah!

Posted by: Grape Ape

You're not gonna use that in the 408 though, right? It' work, but your rpm range would be pretty low. Sounds like a good cam for a driver 351 though, high compression, low compression, whatever. That's about what they need to breathe a little!! Well, provided the heads are ready(not stock). Good luck with it.

Posted by: StoneFox

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grape Ape


	You're not gonna use that in the 408 though, right? It' work, but your rpm range would be pretty low. Sounds like a good cam for a driver 351 though, high compression, low compression, whatever. That's about what they need to breathe a little!! Well, provided the heads are ready(not stock). Good luck with it.

Oh no, The 408s gonna have a roller cam in the 600 lift range

Posted by: Grape Ape

That's what I'd expect. Figure that into your head purchase. I know you will, but be sure you get the valve springs the 408 will need if you plan to re-use whatever heads you get now. While it will cost a few hundred more in the end, I still think getting heads for the current application and then selling and replacing those with heads more appropriate for the 408's needs. It will surely move a bunch more air, even if you kept the same compression ratio.

Posted by: VETTKLR

What were your head/cam numbers, G-Monkey?

I've slept since then.

Posted by: Grape Ape

My cam was 242/254@.050 with .608/.620 lift using 1.6 rockers. LSA - 112. For the rest, I'd have to seek out my build sheet.

Heads flowed 346int and 274.1 exh. @ .700 but the best part was the flow was high all across the lift range. Again, I'd have to pull the sheet to tell you what they are. As I recall, it was over 300/250 from about .550 up.

Posted by: VETTKLR

TEA's 'R' Heads are the coolest.

Posted by: Grape Ape

They sure allow an engine to breathe well.

That's a thought to use and keep for a 408 Stone, but they aren't cheap. Mine weren't too bad, but prices today aren't as low and I got a break for a few reasons, including my heads being the prototype for Stage II's. Anyway, Brian uses good parts and it's unlikely you'll hear of problems from his TFS heads. Now you might check pricing just to see. If you buy from Brian, TFS or others, I feel you'll be really happy with them.

Posted by: StoneFox

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grape Ape


	They sure allow an engine to breathe well. That's a thought to use and keep for a 408 Stone, but they aren't cheap. Mine weren't too bad, but prices today aren't as low and I got a break for a few reasons, including my heads being the prototype for Stage II's. Anyway, Brian uses good parts and it's unlikely you'll hear of problems from his TFS heads. Now you might check pricing just to see. If you buy from Brian, TFS or others, I feel you'll be really happy with them.

Do you have a link or phone number?

Posted by: Grape Ape

Brian Tooley owns Total Engine Airflow and the link... www.totalengineairflow.com ... that should do it. I was "lucky" enough to get Brian himself working on mine, but his guys know how to run a CNC, so no matter. Mine were hand ported.

Phone: 330-784-5210 and I guess just ask for Brian. Idunno if he still answers new calls, but you can email him through the site. If you can get him to do the heads, you're in. I think he's the best TFS modifyer in the land, even better than Fox Lake. Well, they're about a tie, but Brian doesn't take 6 months for a pair of heads. 6 days can be enough for him. He sells stock heads, ported heads in various stages, repair items, gaskets and just about anything to do with engines is good on his part. He's also big into GM's and that's prolly part of why he moved the company. He was short on space I'm sure.

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