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Ford seeks to borrow $18bn but is required to put up collateral
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Posted by: John

Just saw this. Doesn't bode well. Doesn't bode well at all.

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/ar...2475012,00.html

Posted by: 65fairlane

Wow, sounds like they are finally about done.

Posted by: JustaV6

I'm tellin ya, the only way the "big" 2 american car companies will survive, is if we see a GM/Ford merge.

Toyota is taking over the world.

Everyone in this country just buys imports because they believe without a doubt they are superior because all they do is buy what they hear is good on TV and through people they know.

Posted by: No Rice Allowed

What really hurt Ford was that Firestone fiasco......The Lawsuits mounted and Mounted on top of one another...

Posted by: StoneFox

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Rice Allowed


	What really hurt Ford was that Firestone fiasco......The Lawsuits mounted and Mounted on top of one another...

Not really, What hurt ford was they had all their pickles in the Truck/Suv barrel and fucking gas went up to $3.00 a gallon. I think they will eventually crawl out of it, its just taking a while.

Posted by: John

Yeah, I don't think this is the end of Ford. They are borrowing the moolah for restructuring costs. They honestly should have done it about 4 years ago. They probably only need about $10bn and the extra 8 is for a buffer incase of a recession so that they don't get caught with thier pants down.

GM is pulling itself up by the bootstraps and there is no reason to think Ford can't either. Chrysler got the buyout because as big as they were, they were barely half teh size of Ford and 1/3rd the size of GM. They just didn't have the capital in them to survive a company of similar size either merging or forming a buyout. Ford still has many assets it can unload quickly to get cash flow. I think Ford will be with us for a little while and even if they do declare bankruptcy, it likely won't be a show stopper and will just be a restructuring thing.

The mere fact that they have enough worth in the company to be able to leverage it to borrow so much just shows that they are not in the poor house yet.

Posted by: Carpet_Liquer

I think the biggest problem with all the North American car makers is, way to many models!!! They make 1 car and rebadge 3 or 4 times...Buick, Chevy, Pontiac. Separate the groups and start making their own models. GMC should only make pick-ups and SUV's, Chevrolet should make coupes and family sedans, Pontiac should stick to sportier cars, Buick and Caddy make Luxury land yachts.
Same as Ford...cut down on the models. Look at Toyota, Honda & Nissan....very few models. They can spend their time and money on R&D to make their cars alot better.
Thats what I think anyway.

Posted by: Mr. P

All of the above, and this too http://www.boycottford.com/

THIS bullshit did not do FoMoCo stockholders, workers, or management any good.

If Ford would fire their STUPID marketing gnomes, and get someone in there that understands the value of building a good product, and forget the social engineering BS, they would be far better off today.

You can't have a marketing department that ends up PISSING OFF a huge sector of the people you're trying to schmooze into buying your products. Apparently they didn't teach this philosophy in the business schools these idiots attended. I think the letter below pretty well sums up what the STUPID IDIOTS at FoMoCo seemed to miss when they were in business school.

http://www.afa.net/images/fordtexasletter1.jpg

http://www.afa.net/images/fordtexasletter2.jpg

Mr. P

Posted by: No Rice Allowed

Well Said, Mr. P.......

Posted by: John

Who the hell names thier kid Doss?

Boycotts are stupid. They never hurt the ones that it is intended to hurt and only the honest working man gets it shafted up his ass for it. You want to make a political statement? Get your permit and stage a pickett line. Protest. Don't go running to the Ford dealer and the salesmen waging your finger and calling them naughty. It doesn't help, boycotts don't send a message and Ford is likely not hurting because sales in 70 some odd dealers in Texas dropped. They likely picked up more sales to offset those lost in Texas in more homosexual friendly places like the Pac-North West and metropolitan New York.

Ford's problems cannot be distilled down to one single instance of a bad ad campaign choice. It also makes me wonder, if those people in Texas are so offended by such a magazine, how did any of them see it to begin with if they aren't reading it?

Business is business, leave your personal values out of it. When a company is running up against a wall as hard and big as the one Ford is currently hitting, you do your best to get sales numbers up any way possible. That includes exploring alternate/non-traditional avenues for advertisment.

Think back to the last time you saw an ad in a place you didn't expect it. Like seeing an Always feminine product ad in a baseball game program. Does it belong there? Not necessarily because that's typically a more male demographic. Does that mean there aren't women there? Well, they make up at least 50% of the population so I would suspect that baseball games are not a 100% sausagefest. I'll gaurantee you one thing though, that ad got noticed.

Just because Ford chose to run an ad in a place where no one expected to see one doesn't mean that they don't support family values. It just means they took a chance at running an ad in a place where they thought it would get some of that knee-jerk attention. Just because some loony editor ran it next to a controversial ad is not Ford's fault. All they can do is throw money at the rag and tell them they want an ad. They have no say where in the magazine it goes.

Beyond that, those morons in Texas and the AFA who are boycotting Ford because of unfortunate ad placement are as stupid as the day is long. Yes, it can be argued that Ford is supporting the lifestyle by supporting the magazine with ad revenue but if you are going to base your decision on which vehicle to buy based on a faceless corporate entity then you deserve what you get.

I agree that because Ford's demographic is so wide spread they need to avoid controversial ads like this because it just pisses off the majority of thier customer to please a minority. It's bad business sense. What irks me about the whole thing is the AFA. The guy in the letter says that these people are not religious nutcases. Guess what pal, the AFA IS a religious nutcase organization! I'm a God-fearing guy and I try my best to be a good Christian but come on people, get back to reality! Stop hurting the dealer/salesmen. Ford isn't hurting from this boycott. Your neighbor or even one of your family members is. Wise-up and go buy a Ford if you really want one.

This shit is ALMOST as bad as not buying a particular brand of ice-cream over some silly political stance. It's fucking ICE CREAM! I C E C R E A M!!!!!!

Get over yourselves already! If you're that hard up for a cause, go volunteer at a chaity or your church or even a hospital. Nobody ever made a difference being a self-righteous, cheap bastard.

Posted by: Mr. P

Quote:

Originally Posted by John


	Who the hell names thier kid Doss? Boycotts are stupid. They never hurt the ones that it is intended to hurt and only the honest working man gets it shafted up his ass for it. You want to make a political statement? Ford's problems cannot be distilled down to one single instance of a bad ad campaign choice. Business is business, leave your personal values out of it. I agree that because Ford's demographic is so wide spread they need to avoid controversial ads like this because it just pisses off the majority of thier customer to please a minority. It's bad business sense. This shit is ALMOST as bad as not buying a particular brand of ice-cream over some silly political stance. It's fucking ICE CREAM! I C E C R E A M!!!!!!

Some good comments, John.

Boycotts aren't all stupid, however, because they make head-strong people and head-strong companies LISTEN, when it starts costing them money. This one managed to get enough world wide attention to get a message across.

Ford's problems can't be distilled down to one event, agreed. No argument there. They are mired down with the albatross of the UAW around their necks. I wish Ford all good luck swimming with an iron anvil around your neck, and by the way, good luck competing with the Japanese management philosophy too.

Business is not necessarily business, it's personal contacts, relationships, and preferences too, especially in the private sector. Maybe not in your world, but in some, people have preferences and they will not spend money, or extend contracts, based upon how they feel about the situation. In goverment, they have to be objective, but this is not the mandatory rule in the private sector. Therefore, if someone thinks a particular company is goofy, they can stay goofy by themselves.

Do you remember Mrs. Heinze Kerry, cough, cough. You know, the woman John Kerry couldn't shut up on his election campaign? If they could have shut her up, it might have been enough to swing the state of Ohio, lol. In any case, it will be a COLD DAY IN HELL before I ever buy any Heinze product, because I know where the money goes. Besides that, there are other alternatives I'm quite comfortable with. Do I want to send money to Mr. and Mrs. Kerry, hell no, and therefore I (and untold millions of other Americans who remember) are doing the same thing. They essentially aleniated half the country, some of whom would gag if they thought they just ate a hot dog with Heinze on it, ha ha.

People like me don't give a rip whether or not Mr. and Mrs. Blowhard recognizes it or not, we're just comfortable knowing none of OUR money is going into their bank accounts.

I think the Dixie Chicks got a taste of that too. Talk about crashing and burning in front of your own market sector. A lesson to be learned there, and for Ford too, unless they're too head strong to recognize that every little bit of success either helps them look good, or every little bit of failure helps drive a nail in their coffin (their choices).

I think the whatever the group is who is doing the boycott, AFA, whatever, are a bunch of activists, and although they may be zealots, they have a perfect right to their belief and their actions are not illegal. The message is not unlike "Shut up and SING". For Ford, it's "SHUT UP and JUST BUILD CARS" and stay the hell out of social engineering.

Do I agree with AFA? That's not the issue. The issue remains, Ford basically fucked their corporate selves and their dealerships because someone in a responsible marketing position was just plain stupid, and did something that should have been called "the kiss of death" and avoided. I won't necessarily boycott Ford, but that ad campaigne pissed me off. If I see it prevail, I may draw the conclusion Ford is run by a group of people I don't want to associate with, and if that's the case, then the chances of spending money with a company I dislike is slim to none. If there is a mass reaction of similar nature, it's going to be recognized ad bad for business, and that always snaps em to attention. They don't care about the moral issues, but they sure do bow to the allmighty dollar.

If Ford is too headstrong to recognize the public reaction, then perhaps we'll see them step on their own dicks again, and again, and again, and guess what the bottom line is going to look like. Sooner or later they'll be able to piss off even more people, and pissed off people don't spend money at companies they're pissed off at.

Sheesh, too bad they didn't have me as a speaker at the Masters of Business Administration school their marketing director attended, lol. Better yet, you and I could have taught the class together, ha ha, a tag team!

Mr. P

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