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Posted by: KingofSlackers

First, let me state that I just think this thread would be a good topic for some different ideas and discussions over said ideas. I'm not trying to bench race or anything else. I'm going to simply state to you what has happened and see what you guys think about it....

As some of you may remember, my dealership was bought out late last year. I didn't like the "new" way of doing business so when I was given a job offer at a dealership in the town I grew up in... I took it. My drive went from an hour to just 15 minutes, plus I was given a Demo to drive AND the hours are shorter... all for the same amount of money. Well, this dealership is now in it's Third generation of family ownership. The owner is now a 21 year old young man that just grad. from college in December. I have become pretty good friends with him due to our similar tastes in Mustangs, our age (most everyone else other than me have been here for ever and are older than dirt), etc.

Now, I have still have my 05 GT vert 5 speed. Stock except for the SLP Loudmouth axle back kit. He has a 07 GT coupe with a Brinnspeed (sp?) Cold Air Kit, Computer Tune, Ford Racing Axle Back Kit, Hurst Shifter, lower control arms, 4.10 gear, etc.

Now he has been itching to race. And by those mods, he should blow me away. On Fridays everyone that owns a Mustang drive it to work. One Friday we leave early... he follows me onto the highway, when we get out of town and traffic has cleared he rolls up beside me and wants to run. So we kick it with a rolling start of about 55 mph. He pulls on me but puts no more than a car length on me before I close the gap... then he lifts.

I started in third gear... he was in fourth.

Second time we go with a rolling start at about 45 mph. He pulls but my front bumper stays beside his rear wheel until I start to pull up beside him... he lifts... and is pissed.

I started in second with just for a lil push before I had to shift... he started in third.

This same thing happens several more times until he is fuming mad. Finally when leaving from the gas station we get caught at a light on the Highway. He wants to run. Light turns green... we both screw-up and smoke the tires, he gains traction quicker than I do and takes off... puts 2 car lengths on me... then I start pulling on him. Get to his rear bumper and still gaining... he lifts... mad again.

The next day at work he calls our Ford rep and talks him into getting us another GT 500 allocation. He places an order for a Convertible GT 500 for himself....

He has over 2 grand invested in mods on his GT. I have about 300 bucks invested in the SLP system. Opinions? Do you think his money was worth it? What factors do you think played into the performances of these two cars? It was a nice 65 or so degree dry day. About 5pm in the evening.

Posted by: Grape Ape

He still doesn't know how to drive it in all likelihood. Plus, lifting as he did, he didn't give himself or the car enough time to see if it could've stayed in the lead or not. Since his driving isn't so good, the money in it so far hasn't paid off. When he learns to really stay in the throttle, it will run pretty quickly through the 1/4 and if he has no speed limiter, he may actually see pretty good top end if he wants to try. Finally, if his tune is wrong, he's pissin' in the wind. The only way to be sure the tune isn't wrong is on a chassis dyno or the track itself. Not that it should make unreal power, but a proper tune would give it a solid hp/tq curve.

His biggest benefit is probably going to come with learning how to drive the car, and at his age, and that of the car, along with his probable schedule, he hasn't had much seat time yet.

And if he gets the new car soon... It won't matter what he did with the current car.

Posted by: KingofSlackers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grape Ape


	He still doesn't know how to drive it in all likelihood. Plus, lifting as he did, he didn't give himself or the car enough time to see if it could've stayed in the lead or not. Since his driving isn't so good, the money in it so far hasn't paid off. When he learns to really stay in the throttle, it will run pretty quickly through the 1/4 and if he has no speed limiter, he may actually see pretty good top end if he wants to try. Finally, if his tune is wrong, he's pissin' in the wind. The only way to be sure the tune isn't wrong is on a chassis dyno or the track itself. Not that it should make unreal power, but a proper tune would give it a solid hp/tq curve. His biggest benefit is probably going to come with learning how to drive the car, and at his age, and that of the car, along with his probable schedule, he hasn't had much seat time yet. And if he gets the new car soon... It won't matter what he did with the current car.

Seat time isn't really an issue. He has had the car for almost a year now and most of the mods have been on it from day one. He drove it to college and tells stories of being "the man." I do agree though that he isn't that great of a driver... or actually he isn't as good as he thinks he is. The tune could be off, but I don't think so... or course I'm not a expert on that.

IMO, he was lifting... not because he isn't experienced or anything with the car... he was lifting out of it because I was pulling back on him and his ego couldn't take it. His foot stayed into the throttle until I was back on him.

Cool. Anyone else want to add to the discussion?

Posted by: Mugen_K20A

The only power adders he has that you don't are a "computer tune" which very likely could be fucked up and a cold air induction kit that doesn't get you shit, especially if the "computer tune" isn't optimized for it.

It has been my experience that the mod motors like to breathe heavy. That's why they respond so well to forced induction. If the computer tune doesn't know what to do with change in density of the air charge coming in the intake then it likely over richens the mixture at high RPM's and starts bogging the engine down. That is to stave off heat and detonation. With 4.10's it probably have great low end grunt but it runs out of steam quickly in the big end too. If you don't have the 4.10's your gears will wind out farther and your torque curve will be flatter across the RPM range.

You probably pull on him and catch up at the top end because he doesn't have the high RPM range her used to with the stock 3.55's or 3.73's. If he didn't lift, stayed in it and shifted into the next gear, even if it is an OD gear, with the 4.10's he would have scooted and then fallen on his face again, well below what you can top out at.

I really doubt that he has THAT much of a power advantage over you with all his extra parts. Besides, some of them, like the suspension mods, likely hurt his straight line performance. I'm pretty sure the GT has a 5 speed manual. If he wants to run with 4.10's and not lose top end, he should drop in a T-56. The ratios are closer and the extra gear gives him the top end back. He should have stuck with the 3.55's and gotten the limited slip setup. That would do way more for him than 4.10's with no other work.

I feel sorry for you. If an idiot like that is your boss, your job is gonna go downhill quite fast.

Posted by: No Rice Allowed

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingofSlackers


	Seat time isn't really an issue. He has had the car for almost a year now and most of the mods have been on it from day one. He drove it to college and tells stories of being "the man." I do agree though that he isn't that great of a driver... or actually he isn't as good as he thinks he is. The tune could be off, but I don't think so... or course I'm not a expert on that. IMO, he was lifting... not because he isn't experienced or anything with the car... he was lifting out of it because I was pulling back on him and his ego couldn't take it. His foot stayed into the throttle until I was back on him. Cool. Anyone else want to add to the discussion?

He could be lifting because he is scared of the car...His legs start to tremble at higher speeds and he gives up, but he would never admit that to you! Shell-shocked! I've known a few like this...They buy a fast car to show off, but don't have enough courage in them to really use it.

Posted by: Grape Ape

So far, he hasn't stayed in it long enough to know what it would do over 1/4 mile... He should take it to the track and see what it can really do, whether or not he races anyone else to find out.

Posted by: KingofSlackers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grape Ape


	So far, he hasn't stayed in it long enough to know what it would do over 1/4 mile... He should take it to the track and see what it can really do, whether or not he races anyone else to find out.

That's what I want him to do... but not for that reason. He thinks that drag racing is easy. According to him, all you have to do is stomp the gas and change gears. I want to see him do that...

Posted by: KingofSlackers

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Rice Allowed


	He could be lifting because he is scared of the car...His legs start to tremble at higher speeds and he gives up, but he would never admit that to you! Shell-shocked! I've known a few like this...They buy a fast car to show off, but don't have enough courage in them to really use it.

Well, I don't think that is an issue because myself and others have seen him drive a higher speeds than we got running the cars. Hell, when the Saleen rep came by to talk to us about signing up he brought his demo. 08 S281 SC Speedster and the dealer and myself took it up the road and he was into the triple digit speeds then. It didn't scare him until I drove it on some curves on the way back.

Posted by: KingofSlackers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugen_K20A


	It has been my experience that the mod motors like to breathe heavy. That's why they respond so well to forced induction. If the computer tune doesn't know what to do with change in density of the air charge coming in the intake then it likely over richens the mixture at high RPM's and starts bogging the engine down. That is to stave off heat and detonation. With 4.10's it probably have great low end grunt but it runs out of steam quickly in the big end too. If you don't have the 4.10's your gears will wind out farther and your torque curve will be flatter across the RPM range. You probably pull on him and catch up at the top end because he doesn't have the high RPM range her used to with the stock 3.55's or 3.73's. If he didn't lift, stayed in it and shifted into the next gear, even if it is an OD gear, with the 4.10's he would have scooted and then fallen on his face again, well below what you can top out at. I really doubt that he has THAT much of a power advantage over you with all his extra parts. Besides, some of them, like the suspension mods, likely hurt his straight line performance. I'm pretty sure the GT has a 5 speed manual. If he wants to run with 4.10's and not lose top end, he should drop in a T-56. The ratios are closer and the extra gear gives him the top end back. He should have stuck with the 3.55's and gotten the limited slip setup. That would do way more for him than 4.10's with no other work. I feel sorry for you. If an idiot like that is your boss, your job is gonna go downhill quite fast.

Now this is more what I have been thinking, but I want to hear from everyone about it also. My car still has the stock 3.55s and although his 4.10s give him the lower grunt and his mods might give him an extra 25-35 HP, I think he runs out of gear. By watching and listening to his car you can tell he is maxing 4th gear out while I am still pulling in 3rd. By the time I hit 4th his car is out of steam. I think it was more of his ego that causes him to lift. He doesn't want to be passed by a stock car because then he would feel like he wasted his money.

Don't feel sorry for me. This kid is making changes to the dealership and trying new things that will and are helping. He isn't an idiot by any means and sitting and talking to him for a few minutes about business will let you see that. He is just young and inexperienced at some things. Of course, if your Dad passed away in his 40s and left you to try and carry a multi-million dollar business you would probably be inexperienced too.

Posted by: Grape Ape

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingofSlackers


	That's what I want him to do... but not for that reason. He thinks that drag racing is easy. According to him, all you have to do is stomp the gas and change gears. I want to see him do that...

In its current setup, drag racing is easy! Of course, he has to drive it regardless. A better driver will get a better ET, in general terms.

With 4.10's, it shouldn't run out of acceleration till it exceeds 100mph(in 4th). I don't know if that would bother me considering the rpm range of the 4.6L, or at least the limit. That's a low gear for many cars past, but I've seen 4.56's in these cars. 4.30's are fairly commonplace. Starting from zero, they're going to help. I would rather not use 4.anything unless my plan is an 1/8th mile track. We've had that discussion here many times. Lower gears aren't always the best answer. You'll need both power and rpm to match. At very least, high rpm is needed.

He's at a sort of crossroads with his gears compared to yours... That's why he needs to get to the track, so he can figure out when to shift. He may be hitting the next gear at 6K when the engine could go higher and that tune plays a role here. Your car is basically stock, so you can use stock shift points and once you get used to it, you'll have an easier time. His tune may have caused a change in shift points that he hasn't figured out yet.

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