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NOT WORK SAFE!!!
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Posted by: Grape Ape

NOT WORK SAFE!!!

This involved GUNFIRE on film.

http://s251.photobucket.com/albums/...tAttachment.flv

Just goes to show what a complete idiot will do when he feels like the situation is hopeless. Of course, I only suspect that...

Posted by: bl3wbyu

Holy crap! Is that real???

That was really...weird....just instantly came pouring out of his head and mouth...and the other guys just seemed to be so annoyed that they'd have to clean up the mess...

Posted by: LS1JAY

Yeah, I saw that video a few months back. It looks to be real, but who knows?

Posted by: Grape Ape

Oh, I think it's real. Blood from head, both ears(from the looks), mouth... Muscles tense, then release as he passes... It's real from here.

I figure they called him in for interrogation and he must've felt guilty, so rather than face the courts "justice" and maybe spend time in prison... He dictated the penalty himself and imposed it.

Posted by: LS1JAY

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grape Ape


	Oh, I think it's real. Blood from head, both ears(from the looks), mouth... Muscles tense, then release as he passes... It's real from here.

I agree.

Posted by: No Rice Allowed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The circumstances behind this video took place on 19 December 2003, when 47-year-old Ricardo Alfonso Cerna was stopped for a traffic violation at about 9:30 A.M. in Muscoy (a residential suburb of San Bernardino County, about 60 miles east of Los Angeles). Cerna fled the scene (in his car and then on foot) before shooting the pursuing officer, sheriff's deputy Michael Parham, twice in the abdomen. (Deputy Parham survived the shooting.) Cerna was soon arrested by San Bernardino police and taken to sheriff's headquarters on Third Street, where he was placed in an interview room just before 11 A.M. in preparation for questioning by Bobby Dean, head of the San Bernardino County sheriff's homicide unit.

When Dean stepped out of the room briefly to speak with a detective in the hallway, Cerna pulled the .45-caliber handgun out of his pants and shot himself in the head. Evidently a chain of mistakes led to Cerna, a shooting suspect, being taken into custody without either the arresting officers or the booking officers discovering he had a large, heavy handgun concealed on his person:

[Sheriff Gary] Penrod said deputies failed to adequately search Cerna before he was put in a car, and again when he was transferred to the homicide division office. Each receiving deputy may have wrongly assumed the previous officer adequately searched the man, he said.

Penrod said confusion among the three agencies involved — the Highway Patrol, San Bernardino police and the Sheriff's Department — may have contributed to the oversight.

"Obviously there was a mistake made," Penrod said by phone. "It was hectic and it was a guy who was cuffed by somebody other than the transporting officer. (This apparently egregious oversight led to conspiracy-theory speculation in some quarters that Cerna had been "executed" by the San Bernardino Sheriff's Department, or that the sheriff returned the gun to Cerna and urged him to commit suicide with it — the completely implausible scenario of officers' deliberately handing a loaded gun to a suspect who had already shot one policeman notwithstanding.)

As the how the video of Cerna's suicide made it onto the Internet, sheriff's spokesman Chip Patterson said:

[A] ranking official at the department was authorized to show the video during a presentation on officer safety at the FBI's training academy in Quantico, Va., several months ago.

Following the presentation, dozens of copies of the video were made at the request of law-enforcement agencies across the country. Officials of those agencies wanted the copies for training purposes.
Sheriff's officials do not know who might have leaked the video to the public. Some of the officers involved in Cerna's arrest and handling were subjected to disciplinary action, but sheriff's officials wouldn't comment on the specifics of that action or identify the officers involved.

I really dont know why people always give that an option....I'd rather rot in jail for a long time before I even consider it...People give up way to easy....

Posted by: Grape Ape

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Rice Allowed


	I really dont know why people always give that an option....I'd rather rot in jail for a long time before I even consider it...People give up way to easy....

On accounta 'cause they're worthless, weak and pathetic???

It's almost sad, but how could we really feel sad for some moron who purposely hurts(or worse) themselves??? I don't. Afterall, I'm not a doctor psycho or somethin' ... I'd tell 'em wise up, man up, whatever... But they say I'm just a meany!

Posted by: No Rice Allowed

Ricardo Alfonso Cerna (c. 1956-December 19, 2003) was a Guatemalan immigrant to the United States who became famous for committing suicide with a gun while being videotaped in an interrogation room in the San Bernardino County Sheriff's office in Muscoy, California in 2003. He was 47 years old.

Cerna was stopped by Sheriff's Deputy Michael Parham for a traffic violation on December 19, 2003. He tried to escape in his car and then later on foot. During the pursuit, he shot Deputy Parham twice in the abdomen, non-fatally. Cerna was arrested shortly afterwards. Three agencies had been involved in the chase (the San Bernardino Police, the county sheriff, and the California Highway Patrol). During the apprehension and hand-over, no one made sure he was properly searched.

Cerna shot himself in the side of the head at point-blank range with a .45-caliber handgun that he had hidden in the front of his pants. The entire incident was recorded on the surveillance camera in the interrogation room. Although he died instantly, the damage from the bullet to the inside of his head caused blood to pour rapidly out of the wound, his mouth, and his right ear for the remainder of the video (nearly 30 seconds). The sound is clearly audible on the tape, especially after Cerna's head rolls over to his left.

The Sheriff's Department showed the security camera footage to the media by the following day. To avoid public sensationalism, only a handful of reporters were permitted to see it. The footage was never intended to be made public, but evidently it has been illicitly leaked.

Certain political activists representing the Hispanic American community expressed outrage, claiming Cerna's death to have been murder rather than suicide, with the deputies as the perpetrators.[citation needed]

Posted by: Grape Ape

I told the guys where I saws this, that is was a guat! They said Mexican AND they said middle eastern... How long have *I* lived in FL!!

Posted by: An11SecRanger

Rather than being upset about cleaning up the mess, I think they were upset at the fact that someone fucked up, big-time, and they knew it! That's a huge mistake!
I can't believe they had a suspect in for shooting an officer (among other things) and he had not been checked for weapons!
What kind a group is that? Do they hire from a pool of people who's IQs are required be under 100??? Is there no one in that part of the country with more than half a brain, or what?!?!
As for the tape being "out" ... so what? I don't think we need to see this stuff (for the most part) but I don't think it really matters anymore (I think this is sad, but true). In this case, it's probably a good thing because it exonerates anyone whom had been accused of murdering Cerna.

Posted by: No Rice Allowed

Quote:

Originally Posted by An11SecRanger


	Rather than being upset about cleaning up the mess, I think they were upset at the fact that someone fucked up, big-time, and they knew it! That's a huge mistake! I can't believe they had a suspect in for shooting an officer (among other things) and he had not been checked for weapons! What kind a group is that? Do they hire from a pool of people who's IQs are required be under 100??? Is there no one in that part of the country with more than half a brain, or what?!?! As for the tape being "out" ... so what? I don't think we need to see this stuff (for the most part) but I don't think it really matters anymore (I think this is sad, but true). In this case, it's probably a good thing because it exonerates anyone whom had been accused of murdering Cerna.

December 23, 2003

Gun given to suspect by San Bernardino Sheriff's
to commit suicide in interrogation room

La Voz de Aztlan has received a large amount of e-mail concerning the mystery of how Ricardo Alfonso Cerna, now determined to be an immigrant from Guatemala and not Mexico, supposedly managed to pull a large .45 caliber handgun from a front pocket of his pants to shoot himself, in the head, inside the interrogation room of the San Bernardino Sheriff's Headquarters. Cerna who was arrested for the shooting injury of a S.B. Sheriff's deputy on Friday, was thoroughly searched by the arresting officers from the San Bernardino Police Department prior to turning him over to the S.B. Sheriff's. The San Bernardino Police did not find the large and heavy .45 caliber handgun in Cerna's front pant's pocket. In addition, the S.B. Sheriff's who took custody of Cerna nor the booking officers inside the jail found the gun that Cerna used in the crime on the suspect.

So how was Cerna able to magically produce the handgun from his front pocket to commit suicide inside the interrogation room? Witnesses in Muscovy, an unincorporated area of San Bernardino, believe that Cerna discarded the handgun as he attempted to hide and was recovered a few hours later by officers. This explains why neither the San Bernardino Police nor the booking officers were able to find the gun inside Cerna's pocket. The gun was actually taken into the Sheriff's headquarters by investigating officers.

So how did the gun end up in Cerna's possession inside the interrogation room? Independent investigators close to the case believe that the Sheriff's in charge of the interrogation actually handed the gun to Cerna and convinced him that it would be better for him to ended all, right there and then. According to the theory, the interrogators may have lied to Cerna that the deputy he shot died and that he was facing a bleak torturous future in prison and eventually death through capital punishment. In this situation, it is not difficult to understand why Ricardo Alfonso Cerna may have shot himself.

Posted by: An11SecRanger

I know you don't buy that line of BS!
Let's play "you're the cop and I'm the suspect who just shot a fellow officer!" ...
Give me a gun so I can shoot myself! I promise, I won't shoot you like I shot that other cop!
What's your reply?
He was not frisked.
And by either, scenario, the cops, whether giving him a gun, or not finding the gun, made a huge mistake and that is my point, so it doesn't matter which scenario is correct.
I didn't see, or hear the cop telling him to shoot himself. But, I did see the cop turn his back to Cerna and walk out of the room.
If he gave a gun to a known cop shooter (and they thought the cop was going to die, making Cerna a cop killer) and turned his back on Cerna, ... Well, that would make that cop the world's biggest idiot.
I will never believe that scenario.

Posted by: No Rice Allowed

Quote:

Originally Posted by An11SecRanger


	I know you don't buy that line of BS! Let's play "you're the cop and I'm the suspect who just shot a fellow officer!" ... Give me a gun so I can shoot myself! I promise, I won't shoot you like I shot that other cop! What's your reply? He was not frisked. And by either, scenario, the cops, whether giving him a gun, or not finding the gun, made a huge mistake and that is my point, so it doesn't matter which scenario is correct. I didn't see, or hear the cop telling him to shoot himself. But, I did see the cop turn his back to Cerna and walk out of the room. If he gave a gun to a known cop shooter (and they thought the cop was going to die, making Cerna a cop killer) and turned his back on Cerna, ... Well, that would make that cop the world's biggest idiot. I will never believe that scenario.

Never said I 100% believe it, It's just a different version....I for one don't always believe what the police say or do as well....Take for instance....The story of Tommy Zeigler...Still on death row, the longest inmate to ever be on death row and they wont let him go, even though DNA has proved him to be innocent....The police and one judge F$#ked up his case so bad and now, they'll make sure he just dies in prison, without having to fork over money, without putting him to death or to settle some sort of wrongful death lawsuit with his family! Nope, they'll just let him die behind bars...So, it is possible the police could have done this...You shoot at a police officer, they want the gun for evidence..That isn't something you'll forget to go after, especially if you're a law enforcer...

Posted by: An11SecRanger

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Rice Allowed


	Never said I 100% believe it, It's just a different version

I'm not trying to call you out, or whatever. I just feel like you can't believe that story ... Especially after seeing it happen with you own eyes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Rice Allowed


	I for one don't always believe what the police say or do as well

Neither do I. I know they lie and cheat, but this is on video and I won't argue with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Rice Allowed


	The story of Tommy Zeigler...Still on death row, the longest inmate to ever be on death row and they wont let him go, even though DNA has proved him to be innocent....The police and one judge F$#ked up his case so bad and now, they'll make sure he just dies in prison, without having to fork over money, without putting him to death or to settle some sort of wrongful death lawsuit with his family! Nope, they'll just let him die behind bars...So, it is possible the police could have done this

I'll say, right now, that case seems nuts.
However, this is not that case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Rice Allowed


	You shoot at a police officer, they want the gun for evidence..That isn't something you'll forget to go after, especially if you're a law enforcer

Exactly! And that's why I believe the cops screwed up.

Posted by: No Rice Allowed

Quote:

Originally Posted by An11SecRanger


	I'll say, right now, that case seems nuts. However, this is not that case.

I just brought up that case to demonstrate how far the cops will go...This case, could be no different...

Posted by: Grape Ape

This case on video... Clear and easily understood. The cops missed the gun, whether or not they searched... They missed it because he had it. The possibility that cops handed him a loaded gun and he stuffed it into his shorts so he could wait till he was alone in a room with a hidden camera, then pulled it out and shot himself at the direction of the police... Won't be buyin' THAT wonderful story.

Either way, he was alone when he pulled the gun and killed himself. No other "take" on this story will fit as well as the one on video/audio. And the shining amazement of the cops when they heard the shot fired adds to the idea, they had indeed missed the gun.

Posted by: KingofSlackers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grape Ape


	This case on video... Clear and easily understood. The cops missed the gun, whether or not they searched... They missed it because he had it. The possibility that cops handed him a loaded gun and he stuffed it into his shorts so he could wait till he was alone in a room with a hidden camera, then pulled it out and shot himself at the direction of the police... Won't be buyin' THAT wonderful story. Either way, he was alone when he pulled the gun and killed himself. No other "take" on this story will fit as well as the one on video/audio. And the shining amazement of the cops when they heard the shot fired adds to the idea, they had indeed missed the gun.

Here's the other thing. Watch the video again... everyone that has this "The cops gave him the gun" story all say there is no way they missed that gun in the man's front pocket. They say the gun is too big to be missed in a small front pocket. Look again, the gun is down in the waist of his pants... and his shirt is tucked in. He reaches into his pants to get the gun.

Now a normal search still should have found that gun... but it puts a HUGE hole in that stupid story.

Posted by: No Rice Allowed

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingofSlackers


	Here's the other thing. Watch the video again... everyone that has this "The cops gave him the gun" story all say there is no way they missed that gun in the man's front pocket. They say the gun is too big to be missed in a small front pocket. Look again, the gun is down in the waist of his pants... and his shirt is tucked in. He reaches into his pants to get the gun. Now a normal search still should have found that gun... but it puts a HUGE hole in that stupid story.

But..what I don't get, why wouldn't the cops go after the weapon that shot at one of their partners? Seriously , the cops would be total idiots, not to look for the gun... They knew he had one...You search until you find it...Strip search if you have too... Unless, he really didn't shoot at one and this was covered up as if he did....

Posted by: Grape Ape

Maybe he had TWO 45's! Regardless, I don't think they should've missed that weapon during any search and I think they simply failed to search him properly. End result is indisputable... He ended himself with a single gunshot to the head. Nobody else did it and we have clear proof. Good riddence!

Posted by: No Rice Allowed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grape Ape


	Maybe he had TWO 45's! Regardless, I don't think they should've missed that weapon during any search and I think they simply failed to search him properly. End result is indisputable... He ended himself with a single gunshot to the head. Nobody else did it and we have clear proof. Good riddence!

The outcome is no denying...Just seems stupid on the Police's side of the spectrum, if they missed a weapon hidden on the suspect....We really don't know what was said before or after that video clip....Innocent until proven guilty, pushed to guilt before rationalizing could have been probable....As far as we know, A deputy could have shot towards the alleged suspect and hit the officer himself..He covers it up...I wouldn't trust a cop as far as I could throw one....Reason the gun was missed, maybe he never fired at the cops!!...Police tell the suspect, your in deep shyte and we will punish you to the end...He pulls out the missed gun and shoots himself, instead of facing humility...Don't believe everything you see....too many sides! So, really there isn't any clear proof on why, other than we see a guy take his life. Police leak this particular event (instead of many others) to the media for what reason? Just seems A little bit fishy to me.

In the video, another officer ask the first one, after the suicide, "Where did he get it?" Huh?? Hello?? Did he or did he not shoot an officer with a gun??

Posted by: An11SecRanger

Well, first of all, the tape was not leaked in the beginning. It was given to the media the very next day to avoid this type of thing. They knew there would be some serious problems until the facts were out and they wasted no time giving the tape to the media. However, they didn't intend for the tape be made public.
Now, years later, the tape has been leaked. But, the facts are the facts. I don't care if they leaked it in the first place, but it was, in fact, released to a select group of media the day after the incident.
As far as another deputy shooting at Cerna and hitting Parham; it's beyond unlikely because, evidently there wasn't another deputy on the scene. It was, after all, just a routine traffic stop when it started. I wonder why a good citizen would shoot a cop for over a traffic ticket.

There were witnesses at the scene of the shooting, but, oh so oddly, nobody seems to have been asking them about these little details.

Don't forget; hours had passed before the officer "caught" Cerna. The idea that the police expected Cerna to still be carrying the gun doesn't seem all that probable. They should have searched him and they didn't, or, at least, didn't do it well. But they know most suspects toss the gun immediately. So, I suppose they could have thought that. STUPID mistake!
NRA, I don't know how you conclude there are to many sides to things you see, but I saw the tape and I can't come up with another side of suicide.
And I don't need to know why. I don't even care why he did it. For those who missed it, Cerna was on parole, which might have been the reason he committed suicide. But, I still don't care why. So, the convict ended his life and saved us money. Great!

Posted by: No Rice Allowed

Quote:

Originally Posted by An11SecRanger


	Well, first of all, the tape was not leaked in the beginning. It was given to the media the very next day to avoid this type of thing. They knew there would be some serious problems until the facts were out and they wasted no time giving the tape to the media. However, they didn't intend for the tape be made public. Now, years later, the tape has been leaked. But, the facts are the facts. I don't care if they leaked it in the first place, but it was, in fact, released to a select group of media the day after the incident. As far as another deputy shooting at Cerna and hitting Parham; it's beyond unlikely because, evidently there wasn't another deputy on the scene. It was, after all, just a routine traffic stop when it started. I wonder why a good citizen would shoot a cop for over a traffic ticket. There were witnesses at the scene of the shooting, but, oh so oddly, nobody seems to have been asking them about these little details. Don't forget; hours had passed before the officer "caught" Cerna. The idea that the police expected Cerna to still be carrying the gun doesn't seem all that probable. They should have searched him and they didn't, or, at least, didn't do it well. But they know most suspects toss the gun immediately. So, I suppose they could have thought that. STUPID mistake! NRA, I don't know how you conclude there are to many sides to things you see, but I saw the tape and I can't come up with another side of suicide. And I don't need to know why. I don't even care why he did it. For those who missed it, Cerna was on parole, which might have been the reason he committed suicide. But, I still don't care why. So, the convict ended his life and saved us money. Great!

Only problem with that is, if he did shoot the officer...Then he could have shot again and probably could have escaped that holding cell....IMHO, I try to see alot of things in one sitting......

Posted by: KingofSlackers

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Rice Allowed


	Only problem with that is, if he did shoot the officer...Then he could have shot again and probably could have escaped that holding cell....IMHO, I try to see alot of things in one sitting......

There is no way in hell he would have escaped. Honestly.. he may have made it to the door of that room... maybe a couple of feet into the hall. But he would not have been able to escape. IMO. You have armed officers all over that building... now, he could have went for suicide by cop... but that's a different story.

Don't get me wrong, there are few cops I trust. Growing up and living in a small town you start to realize how many people are dirty in there public offices. It's the so called, Good Ole Boy System of you take care of me and I will take care of you. But seeing the video and reading what I have about this "case", I could believe the story that they just screwed up and didn't search him properly.

It's easy in any profession to get caught up and assume that someone else did something or just have a brain fart. It says that the arresting officer wasn't even the one that handcuffed the guy (if I remember correctly), I can see that. My buddy trying to help throws the cuffs on the guy for me, I see he has cuffed him and figure that he did a proper search before hand and I don't do it. Should it happen? Hell no. Can it? Sure.

Posted by: Grape Ape

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Rice Allowed


	The outcome is no denying...Just seems stupid on the Police's side of the spectrum, if they missed a weapon hidden on the suspect....We really don't know what was said before or after that video clip....Innocent until proven guilty, pushed to guilt before rationalizing could have been probable....As far as we know, A deputy could have shot towards the alleged suspect and hit the officer himself..He covers it up...I wouldn't trust a cop as far as I could throw one....Reason the gun was missed, maybe he never fired at the cops!!...Police tell the suspect, your in deep shyte and we will punish you to the end...He pulls out the missed gun and shoots himself, instead of facing humility...Don't believe everything you see....too many sides! So, really there isn't any clear proof on why, other than we see a guy take his life. Police leak this particular event (instead of many others) to the media for what reason? Just seems A little bit fishy to me. In the video, another officer ask the first one, after the suicide, "Where did he get it?" Huh?? Hello?? Did he or did he not shoot an officer with a gun??

Seems clear, they missed the weapon... But any way it's sliced, nobody but the "victim" fired a shot in that room when he died. I don't care the reason... What's done is done... Andyou can stick a fork in it... he's DONE!

He probably did shoot the cop beforehand. If he wasn't a suspect, they wouldn't have arrested him. If the same gun was used... Clear enough. I just know, not a cop in the land is going to hand a loaded gun to anyone, tell them to hide that gun till they get into a room alone, then to pull it out and shoot themselves... It just doesn't make any sense because cops are more afraid of handing any weapon to a NON-cop than anything in the world. They're trained to believe that COPS are the target of NON-cops with guns... No chance they handed him a weapon... None. Even empty, wouldn't happen.

There's only one side of what we saw... Dude man Guat shot himself in the head and slumped over dead... He did, he did, he did it! Nobody else did it, just him. Do I feel bad for him? NOPE, and neither should anyone else.

Posted by: No Rice Allowed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grape Ape


	Seems clear, they missed the weapon... But any way it's sliced, nobody but the "victim" fired a shot in that room when he died. I don't care the reason... What's done is done... Andyou can stick a fork in it... he's DONE! He probably did shoot the cop beforehand. If he wasn't a suspect, they wouldn't have arrested him. If the same gun was used... Clear enough. I just know, not a cop in the land is going to hand a loaded gun to anyone, tell them to hide that gun till they get into a room alone, then to pull it out and shoot themselves... It just doesn't make any sense because cops are more afraid of handing any weapon to a NON-cop than anything in the world. They're trained to believe that COPS are the target of NON-cops with guns... No chance they handed him a weapon... None. Even empty, wouldn't happen. There's only one side of what we saw... Dude man Guat shot himself in the head and slumped over dead... He did, he did, he did it! Nobody else did it, just him. Do I feel bad for him? NOPE, and neither should anyone else.

09-10-2001: "Nobody can deliberately crash into buildings with commercial planes either.." What many thought....Anything is possible....Never rule out the weird and the stupid.

Posted by: No Rice Allowed

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingofSlackers


	There is no way in hell he would have escaped. Honestly.. he may have made it to the door of that room... maybe a couple of feet into the hall. But he would not have been able to escape. IMO. You have armed officers all over that building... now, he could have went for suicide by cop... but that's a different story. Don't get me wrong, there are few cops I trust. Growing up and living in a small town you start to realize how many people are dirty in there public offices. It's the so called, Good Ole Boy System of you take care of me and I will take care of you. But seeing the video and reading what I have about this "case", I could believe the story that they just screwed up and didn't search him properly. It's easy in any profession to get caught up and assume that someone else did something or just have a brain fart. It says that the arresting officer wasn't even the one that handcuffed the guy (if I remember correctly), I can see that. My buddy trying to help throws the cuffs on the guy for me, I see he has cuffed him and figure that he did a proper search before hand and I don't do it. Should it happen? Hell no. Can it? Sure.

With the keystone cops protecting the establishment? He probable could have escaped from there with his hands tied behind his back, whistling Zippety Do Da out the front door. Didn't seem like Alcatraz there and that was escapable.

Posted by: Grape Ape

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Rice Allowed


	09-10-2001: "Nobody can deliberately crash into buildings with commercial planes either.." What many thought....Anything is possible....Never rule out the weird and the stupid.

Crazed people notwithstanding, it just wouldn't happen.

Clearly he killed himself. The odds of being talked into that in such a short amount of time without any physical abuse involved is slim to none. It would require the "shooter" to have an extremely weak mind.

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