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automatic 5.0 questions..
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Posted by: 28

I've gotten the opportunity to purchase an 88 g.t,but not sure if i want it since it's an automatic and a speed density car.i do plan on modifying for racing duty.will the automatic hold up and would it be absolutely nessesary to get the mass air conversion?i would like to get it to low 13's/high 12's.need some recommendations and advice.should i just wait for an 89 with a 5 speed?

Posted by: MikeT

Just a funny note... The ford guys swap to mass air when modding. The chevy guys swap to speed density when moddding.

Posted by: Tang

If it's a good deal, buy it. You can get mass air conversions pretty cheap.

Ok,and if you want to race it . Check out Lentech's AOD's

And definetly covert to Mass Air .

Posted by: StoneFox

Theres nothing wrong with an AOD trans. They are a bit of a slush box from the factory stock, but they can be beefed up. My 89 ran 8.20s, 7.50s on giggle gas, with an AOD. A mass air conversion isnt that bad, all you need is a harness adapter, mass air, and computer. If you get a good deal on it jump on it.

Posted by: Grape Ape

The AOD is stronger than the T-5 but, you would want to add at least a shift kit and perhaps a higher stall converter as well so as to get great shift response. The reason people upgrade to mass air is the number of camshaft choices available. Fact is, the 88's cam was the largest stock version Ford used and it's not all that bad once you add 1.7 rockers. There are probably hundreds more replacement cam combos accessible though, if you switch to mass air. Oh, and if you get this and desire that change, do yourself a favor and search for an A9L computer to do that task. It's made specifically for the AOD with mass air (came factory stock on my 91LX) and it's getting hard to find.

Posted by: 65fairlane

I read that you can use a manual transmission computer on an auto car just not the other way around.

Posted by: Grape Ape

Quote:


	Originally posted by 65fairlane I read that you can use a manual transmission computer on an auto car just not the other way around.

It's the other way around.

Posted by: 65fairlane

Someone should tellTHESE GUYS

Posted by: Grape Ape

OK. I told them. Technically, EITHER computer will work. However, the 5 speed version runs (idles) at a lower rpm and has a quicker fuel curve to compensate for the lower amount of fuel used at idle. Regardless, I know the automatics computer works with the 5 speed because I've done that swap myself (auto to T-5) and never had any problems. My check engine light didn't stay on either. Also, his information is more inline with non mass air cars and not about Mustangs, which got a different engine, transmission and computer from the factory than the Cougar. They are interchangable throughout, but they were definitely different in many aspects. The computers he listed as Mustang computers are actually Mark VII versions, but he only used it as a reference, so it wouldn't matter. The odd thing to me is, who'd put a 5 speed in his Cougar??? Sure, some people would but, the majority wouldn't even think about it.

Posted by: 65fairlane

I love fox body cougars, they are the ultimate sleeper.

Posted by: Grape Ape

I think the ultimate sleeper is, An11secondRanger... heh

Eric replied and told me I'm right, in a nutshell. Said he knows what I said (A9L) will work in a 5 speed application, even though it was used by Ford in automatics. In fact, he said it's the only computer he will recommend to guys doing a mass air included swap.

Posted by: dead

Err.. could anyone tell me the difference between mass air flow and speed density vehicles? Is it an engine setup? Or atleast point me to a link that I can read up on it... thanks.

Posted by: Grape Ape

Here's a thread I never expected to see again...

Speed density doesn't use a mass air meter. It also uses a MAP sensor instead of the "upgraded" barometric pressure sensor(which looks almost exactly like it). In 1989, Ford went to mass air for all it's 5.0HO Mustangs, which employs a different computer and the most obvious advantage to most "Mustangers," opened the cam selection world. You can learn more about it with a Ford Racing Performance Parts Catalog, as they offer an upgrade to mass air kit (swap kit) and some info about it.

Most cars today make use of "Mass Air," which measures/meters the airflow into the intake. V8's were basically the last engines to receive this setup. It was used on 4 cylinder and some 6 cylinder engines for a few years before V8's got it. I wouldn't know why though.
Here's a pic...

And THIS LINK should help too.

Posted by: dead

Thanks for the info, I also searched a bit on some Mustang sites... I still don't really know the technical differences, but speed density = bad it seems, heh.

Posted by: 65fairlane

Like It'llrun said, basically them main advantage is cam selection. The speed density cars are said to be the quickest if they are left in factory stock condition. If you put a cam in a speed density car the computer freaks out so to speak. I am not sure what you can get away with changing on a speed density cars. The Mass Air system compensates for the mods you make within a few minutes of starting it up after making them.

Posted by: slo5o

Quote:


	Originally posted by Grape Ape OK. I told them. Technically, EITHER computer will work. However, the 5 speed version runs (idles) at a lower rpm and has a quicker fuel curve to compensate for the lower amount of fuel used at idle. Regardless, I know the automatics computer works with the 5 speed because I've done that swap myself (auto to T-5) and never had any problems. My check engine light didn't stay on either. Also, his information is more inline with non mass air cars and not about Mustangs, which got a different engine, transmission and computer from the factory than the Cougar. They are interchangable throughout, but they were definitely different in many aspects. The computers he listed as Mustang computers are actually Mark VII versions, but he only used it as a reference, so it wouldn't matter. The odd thing to me is, who'd put a 5 speed in his Cougar??? Sure, some people would but, the majority wouldn't even think about it.

Posted by: slo5o

Quote:


	Originally posted by slo5o

Quote:


	Originally posted by slo5o

Posted by: slo5o

what is needed when swappin an aod to t-5?

Posted by: Grape Ape

Quote:


	Originally posted by slo5o what is needed when swappin an aod to t-5?

What were your 1st two posts about, testing our smilies?

Anyway, AOD to T-5 swap.... Parts needed. If I can remember them all....

1- T-5 transmission made for Ford Mustang(makes it easier, at very least).

2- Bell housing for small block Ford V8.

3- clutch fork

4- clutch cable

5- clutch quadrant and pedal assembly

6- clutch assembly of choice

7- flywheel of choice

8- pilot bearing

9- 3qts of Dexron MerconIII transmission fluid.

10- an array of common tools (too many to list)

11- (almost forgot) A shifter you like.

12- about 8 hours worth of daylight to do the work.

I prolly forgot something, but that's a good start to what's needed.

Posted by: ketanojaun

Definitly the a.t. s are weak and are not really up to the rigors of a modified motor

Posted by: ketanojaun

too mush work and not worthit as ther a lot of 5.0s stillaround with the manual

Posted by: Grape Ape

I've done AOD to T5 swaps before and it's work, but if you want a 5speed, it's almost worth the time. What's not worth the time is the T5 itself, which I must add now, is nowhere near as strong as the AOD and the AOD can be upgraded, whereas the T5 cannot. Well, I take that back. There's a straightcut gearset available now for a T5 and that's the only thing that makes it the least bit strong.

I started with an AOD in my 91LX and burned up three of them, but that could've been avoided with a simple trans cooler. Still I wanted to make the car quicker and heard a T5 was the hot ticket to making it quicker without actually modifying the engine at all, so I made the swap.... After shattering several T5's, I went to a Tremec 3550, which IS worthy of some torque duty. Then I went to an AOD(200-4r) which held up like a champ and the car was just as quick as with the Tremec.

Posted by: slo5o

well my aod is slippin thats why i want to switch to t-5 ive allways wanted stick .....who dosent......how much $$ am i lookin on spendin?

Posted by: Grape Ape

The cost varies, depending on what you install. The clutch pedal assy. is going to be a Ford only item as far as I know, and runs about $130, but could be as low as $80, up to them.

The T5 itself can be found used as low as $300, but be sure it's the right one. There are several versions of the T5 and I don't mean just the gear ratios. There's a 2.3T version that will fool almost any naked eye there is, so either order one or get one from someone you know and trust. Average aftermarket rebuilt T5 gors for about $1,000.00, not including the bell housing, and some places price the Z version as high as $1,200.

Upgrade to a Trmec and buy new... $1,200 for the tranny and $100 more for the bell housing from many places. It shifts much more firmly than any T5 and it's stronger and worth more as well.

The adjustable cable and quadrant assy. goes for $89-99 and is worth that.

A good clutch can cost between $200 and $500 for a street car set up. Look into anything at or above $179.95 from your online Mustang parts houses. That's the whole set, clutch, pressure plate and throwout brg, and will also include an alignment pin in nearly any decent kit.

Fluids cost a few bucks too.. You may spend as much as $2,000, depending on your parts choices, location and so on.

A rebuilt AOD from the best reman. out there will cost between $1,800 and $4,000. It would also be stronger than any T5 you'll ever see at the higher end rebuild levels. If you get a stock rebuild, add a B&M Transpak and a trans fluid cooler, you'll find the car much quicker, stronger feeling and more comfortable when shifting fast. But that's just my thoughts.. :btg:

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