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Fast roadcourse cars?
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Posted by: Grape Ape

This aughta piss someone off...

It did, too.

STEEDA WINS GSII CHAMPIONSHIP

So much for Griggs, I guess.

Posted by: SVOno5oh

Wow :roll:. I'm so impressed. It's funny how you titled this "fast roadcourse cars." Did you ever think Formula1 for even a second before opening your pie hole? Puhleeze... It's not like they had any real competition. Sure if you set up the class rules to make the Mustang the fastest it'll actually get some wins. In GSII where this win came from they are running up against the mighty Acura Integra.... Put it against cars that really handle and it gets its ass handed to it on a platter.

Posted by: Penske

Whoopie, a TUNER car beat Audi S4, Firebird, BMW M3, Porsche 911 and Acura NSX.

Oh yeah, don't forget about the SUPERCHARGED Mustang that got creamed in GS1 by the NA Corvettes...

Posted by: Grape Ape

Corvettes are SPORTS CARS! Anyway, the class racing involved here (GSII) included several makes and models, ALL of which (in it's class), the STEEEDA beat in overall competition.

Driver Jeff Lapcevich turning a lap time of 2:08.15, set a new track record with top speeds over 170 mph, and bettered the old GSII track record by over a full second!

And if you look at the photos, you'll note a Porsche sitting next to the Steeda... Does that NOT look like a "tuner car" to you? The point is, a lowly Mustang SPANKED THAT ASS!

In their first full season of Grand-Am Cup competition,
Shreiner Racing has won the GSII Team, Driver and Manufacture Championships.

FIRST SEASON, no less! TEAM, DRIVER, AND MANUFACTURER CHAMIONSHIPS! One year of racing, 4 wins, 7 podiums and THREE overall championships in class!!!

This team will race in GSI next season. Wish well for the sports cars....

Posted by: Penske

You realize there were only 4 or 5 teams that ran the entire series. Terry Borcheller would have been nearly tied for first had he ran the first and last races (other events conflicted) in an M3. And the Mustang got outqualified most of the time (at Daytona, a Firebird lowered the record even more in the second session, but they don't mention that fact).

I wouldn't call it a spanking.

Posted by: Grape Ape

When a Porsche 911 gets beaten by a Mustang, it's a "spanking" because, the 911 is SUPPOSED to be a better car (100,000 reasons) and that's just sad.

I just think it's funny that there's talk of Mustangs being such horribly made cars, yet they can, not only compete but, WIN in a series like this. Of course, it's not my style of racing but, it's proof that even a Mustang can compete on road courses. The age old analogy has been laid to waste several times but, here it rears it's ugly head again.

Posted by: Penske

Ah, but those guys are running Cobra R's, which last I looked originally sold for around $55K, not too much less than a 996 and more than an older 993 they run against. The Mustangs as carrying about 100-150 pounds more than the Porsche, but with 1 to 1.3 liters more displacement. (When's the last time you saw a Mustang down to 3200 pounds with driver?)

And those are NA Porsches, not the turbos.

Posted by: 65fairlane

Almost any car can be a real contender if you throw enough money at it.

Posted by: Grape Ape

Quote:


	Originally posted by Penske Ah, but those guys are running Cobra R's, which last I looked originally sold for around $55K, not too much less than a 996 and more than an older 993 they run against. The Mustangs as carrying about 100-150 pounds more than the Porsche, but with 1 to 1.3 liters more displacement. (When's the last time you saw a Mustang down to 3200 pounds with driver?) And those are NA Porsches, not the turbos.

The only Porsche mentioned in that class was a 911 (and it's pictured) and they cost over $68,000 new. You could buy 2 Steeda prepped Mustangs for that. The Mustangs mentioned are called "R" models but, in reality they clearly aren't. Just look at the car in the pics. It's no Cobra R and it doesn't have the Cobra R 5.4L DOHC under the hood.

The 911 non turbo is listed as a 3.6L 320hp O6, while the heavier Mustang has a 4.6 2V with an Eaton supercharger. The Mustang is a bit more powerful indeed but, it weighs about 400 lb. more without a driver. The Porsche has better handling characteristics when stock. Obviously not in this race trim though.

Anyway, the Mustang won the class and no other car did.

Posted by: Penske

Chumpnuts, you need to understand racing specifications. Here's the current specs for eligible cars:

Ford Mustang Cobra R, 5.8L 10.5:1 CR, 3100 pounds
Ford Mustang Cobra R , 5.8L 11.6:1 CR, 3200 pounds
Ford Mustang Cobra SVT, 4.6L, 3075 pounds
Porsche 993, 3.6L, 3000 pounds
Porsche 996, 3.4L, 2900 pounds
Porsche 996, 3.6L, 3000 pounds

The Mustangs are also allowed larger front tires. The 5.8s are allowed GT40 heads and the M6250-Z303 cam, with the high compression versions pumping over 500 horsepower. These are the older pushrod 351s.

The blown Mustangs like the Steeda Q are in GS1.

Like I said, the Grand-Am is a lightly subscribed series, you run all the events you have a pretty good chance of winning the title.

Posted by: Grape Ape

I'd like to see 500 plus hp from a naturally aspirated iron headed 351W with a pee wee Z303 cam and only 11.6:1 compression! That would be hardpressed to see 500fwhp. VERY hardpressed. In fact, I just can't see it. More like 430fwhp. I'd like to see that even with aluminum GT40 heads installed.

Again, it's NOT my kind of racing. I think it's too expensive and completely wasteful for anyone to spend 6 hours riding around the same small area in any kind of car.

I enjoy seeing people who aren't Mustang fans scoff at them winning and explaining away the fact to the low number of entrants, the rules, the possibilities. The fact is, this car won the serious, the manufacturers title, the whole ball of wax in just it's FIRST season EVER! Either they get credit for being good or the other teams SUCK! No wonder they're moving up to GSI next season. I don't care even a little bit about the rules, btw.

Even when they win, those who can't compete with them find reason to degrade them. COOL!

Posted by: Grape Ape

BTW, even if they used one of the few 1995 Cobra R models, it's not the R you're thinking of. Those sold for about $31K new.

Posted by: SVOno5oh

Posted by: Penske

How about the SCCA National Championships? Touring 2 class, almost no mods allowed:

http://www.scca.org/amateur/club_ra...ts/t2-race.html

Let me sum up - F-bodies 1st & 2nd, followed by a Boxster and two BMWs. Mustangs showed quite badly, because they need major mods and body strengthening to perform.

Posted by: jmyjck

Quote:


	Mustangs showed quite badly, because they need major mods and body strengthening to perform.

So the F-bods don't ? Just asking. Cause from what I have seen they aren't much better.

Posted by: Grape Ape

There were 12 F-body's and 6 Mustangs in the race. Does this increase the odds of an F-body finishing ahead of a Mustang? Uh huh. The BMW's made a good showing, with only 5 entered and 4 of those finishing. The Porsche had a very good showing, sice only 2 entered and both finished, one way up there. One mught think there is some amount of money behind these cars when you see two cars sponsored by the same company. Anyway, 27 car field and 12 were F-bodies. Of course they should finish well.

Posted by: jackass

well well well... we've got the same arguements going on over here. The recent Bathurst 24hr - http://www.bathurst24hr.com - was won by the GM-H Monaro GTO. Well, didn't that get the camps fired up?... the GM-H fans are all crowing about how the "Aussie muscle car" whooped the Ferraris and Lamboghinis and Porsches. What they fail to mention is this is supposed to be production car racing and the "exotics" were all pretty close to stock but the Monaro was far from it. For starters, it was a 427 (biggest we can buy from the dealer is a 350), the rear guards were tubbed to fit the V8 Supercar - http://www.v8supercars.com/ - rear end and huge wheels/tyres. The whole front end was borrowed from the V8 Supercar series. So, parity?... I don't think so. The leading Ferarri was rated at about 425hp... they're 400 from the showroom. They were even forced to carry ballast :?

Now don't for one minute get me wrong, I am pleased as punch to see the Monaro win and it goes down in the history books as having won the great race, against all comers... all those exotic sports cars! But hell, this is just wrong.

So, the Mustangs... same story?

And to post that "I don't care even a little bit about the rules, btw" is just stupid. It's the rules that make the series. If there were no rules, the poor old Mustang would be left behind, just like our Monaro would. We saw this in the eighties and nineties when Nissan won our touring car championships in, first the 1800cc turbo Bluebird and then later in the R32 Skyline GTS. Then there were BMW who whooped butt, the bloody Cosworth Sierras and a few others won rounds. Our Fords and GM-Holdens were screwed. What did they do?... impose restrictions on the outsiders. When that failed, they created a V8-only series.

As I said earlier, I love to see GM-H win races but it kinda feels a little bit hollow.

Actually, have a look through the http://www.procar.com.au/ website for an insight

Posted by: Grape Ape

Well, I can see why they call you, "jackass"...

I said I don't care about the rules BASED ON SOMETHING! Let me SPELL it out for you... The rules WERE SET and I, personally, had no car entered... Therefore, I don't CARE what the rules were...

If you're foolish enough to believe, the Mustang in this case, won the series because IT was modified and the cars racing against weren't, you need to go look into that series allot closer. It won THREE championship titles in it's 1st year. That's not anything short of a MAXIMUM team effort, and in no way, shape or form, suggests the car was treated like the Holden you mentioned, in order to win a series. For example, no tubs (or fender cutting at all) and no engine that was never available was used. The two series winners are in no way alike, except the basic "it's a car" features.

BTW, I recently heard that Boris Said won another chamionship, in TransAm racing, I suspect....in a Mustang. BTW, those races he's in include Corvettes as well as F-bodies. I suppose the F-body will be history for next season. Bummer.

Posted by: jackass

Quote:


	Originally posted by It'llrun Well, I can see why they call you, "jackass"...

yeah, cheers

Posted by: Grape Ape

I'd forgotten about this thread... It's all good...

Posted by: UnderDogGT

Hey it's great to see someone give those Steeda guy's some credit!! They've been bustin there ass for years!

http://www.steeda.com/PR/Mustang/St...teedaLegend.htm

Posted by: shadowboy

the Steeda won by merit of its driver(s), its crew & team, and the platform of the car.

here is why:

Grand Am Cup is NOT a touring car series like the Austrailian V8 supercar, the JGTC, or Speed World Challenge cars.

It is NOT a Sports Car Series (that is what the Grand-Am series is).

Grand Am Cup is a Showroom Street Stock series. the allowed modifications to the cars are VERY limited. In fact, limited pretty much to just basic bolt ons (intake, header, exhaust, etc), alternate brake pads, alternate wheels (all the cars in the series use the same brand/model tire IIRC), and safety mods (roll cage, fuel cell).

of course the cars are also gutted, and the instrument cluster can be replaced. but aside from pads, the brakes are STOCK. aside from basic bolt ons, the engines are STOCK (no alternate compression ratios, heads, or engine swaps or anything like that).

when you see the success of a team in this series, it is because of the capability of the car, and the dedication & talent of the team.

Posted by: Grape Ape

Close to it anyway. We sure get people finding age old threads thse days. What's up with that? Is it because we're listed on the internet all over the place now?? Well, whatever, it's humorous sometimes, just to see an old thread dragged up.

Posted by: shadowboy

its still on the first page. were it not on the first page still, i would not have seen it

i wasn't around in january to contribute then

Posted by: VickSupra

Quote:


	Originally posted by shadowboy its still on the first page. were it not on the first page still, i would not have seen it

Same here.

Maybe someone needs to post more threads to move the old ones to later pages.

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