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Convertible SS speakers?

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Posted by: RCowan99SSConv

My factory speakers have blown in the convertible SS.. Fronts & rears are 6 1/2 S The rears are low-profile to avoid hitting the top, but normal speakers should clear with a spacer.

What's the best combo ?


Posted by: SVOno5oh

My Miata is a 'vert too, and hearing tunes with the top down can be a real bummer. I ended up with 4 6.5s myself. I have one pair of MB Qaurt 2 ways in the door and a pair of Pioneer Premier 3 ways in the rear deck. It works. Of all the Miata's I've ridden in or driven in, mine is one of the few where you can actually hear the stereo at 70 with the top down. I do plan on adding a good amp for more power to the speakers and running a sub.

Honestly, if I were to buy speakers, I'd get Infinity or MB Quart. I got the 2 Pioneers on the Navy base as they were cheap and I couldn't afford a 2nd set of MBs at the time. It's hard to find speakers that can move enough air quickly enough to be heard well in a vert. I did pretty good. The MBs are awesome, and the Pioneers are very good for the price. If you want actual speaker numbers, I have the boxes in the garage.

Whatever you do, never ever buy Alpine speakers. I have one of their head units as I love their head units, but their speakers suck ass. Don't ever buy anything that says "Pyramid" on it either. I don't know why that stuff is catching on, but it is pure junk.

Are you using the stock Monsoon system to drive the speakers? If so, you'd probably never blow a good set of MBs. They are damn good speakers for the money. You can do better, but it costs a whole lot to do it, and at that point, you are looking at components.


Posted by: LS1JAY

[quote:14ba918078="RCowan99SSConv"]My factory speakers have blown in the convertible SS.. Fronts & rears are 6 1/2 S The rears are low-profile to avoid hitting the top, but normal speakers should clear with a spacer.

What's the best combo ?[/quote:14ba918078]I have alredy had to replace both front speakers in my SS as well! :evil: For some reason they "Blow" (pun intended).


Posted by: John

ok RC, judging by what you told me last night, the big deal with you is a space issue.

i was thinking about it this morning and it really doesn't matter if you have those amp-outs on one of your amps. this is how we are going to do it.

you are going to keep that head unit you have right now. you are also going to keep the MB Quarts. so that saves us about 400-500 bucks right there. what we need to do for you is get you a way to get control over all of your amps and that sub we were talking about. i know you don't want to go boom boom but without a sub, a convertible tends to have flat sound due to the open space. you will have to play the radio way too loud to hear anything decent from it. the sub will provide bottom end fill and have that hard hit that free-air speakers tend to lack due to thier small size and over-abundance of space.

first issue is the amplifiers. we are going to keep both of them. thats another 500 bucks we save, woohoo! but, we are going to get a crossover. thats about 150 bucks. not too bad for what it is going to do for us. a crossover is going to allow us to take those 2 sets of RCA cables (known as pre-amp signal cables) and turn them into 3 sets to allow us to run that sub i was talking about. this will let us send only mid-range and high frequencies up front, send midrange frequencies to the speakers in back and send only low frequencies to the subs. this allows us to keep the sound stage up front near the driver where we want it so we can hear it.

the next thing we want to tackle is those rear speakers. you said you had 6.5S models. well they are really 6.75inches as dicussed earlier. and i thought about this too. the mid-bass/mid-range speakers i was talking about are the best way to go. but, we can provide additional high frequency information for a few dollars more. so the rear speakers are going to be a set of component speakers with seperate woofers and tweeters. this will allow us to angle the tweeters to the front of the car and still get the mid-range fill from the woofers in the stock locations. this will work because like we talked about last night, mid-range and high frequencies are easier to localize than low-frequencies. so we want to direct the tweeters at the intended sound stage so that we can get thier signals to blend at a certain point near the driver's head. that gives us the stereo imaging and helps keep the sound stage out of the windsheild where you won't be able to hear it anyway.

next is the subwoofer. we want small and compact but huge sound. always huge sound. so we need something no bigger than 10 inches with a pile of power to boot. so we want a powered sub woofer. this will give us the the compact dimensions and the big power we are looking for.

ok, one more thing before i get to what i chose as good deals for what you want to do. you need to worry about wiring. since you already have 2 amplifiers you have alot of existing wiring. we aren't going to worry about rewiring the two existing amplifiers. we will need power for the cross-over and the powered subwoofer. so we are going to need a bigger wiring kit and a fused distribution block. relax, its not as complicated as it sounds. and i'm going to send you to Crutchfield to get the items and they will give you instructions on how to do everything with the amplifiers and offer technical support. unless you want to drive up here and i'll do it all for you but i don't think you want to do that.

so here is what i chose as your best options.

first is the crossover: Rockford Fosgate RFQ1201 Electronic Crossover
[img:7b83368b47]http://pix.crutchfield.com/products/2000/575/l575RFQ1201DMT.jpeg[/img:7b83368b47]

this gives us our 2-3 sets of full-range inputs and gives us 2 sets of full-range outputs with adjustable filters on each one and 1 low pass output with an adjustable filter.

price from Crutchfield: $150


next is the rear speakers: Rockford Fosgate FNP2614 6-3/4" fanatic P Component System

[img:7b83368b47]http://pix.crutchfield.com/products/2000/575/l575FNP2614-f.jpeg[/img:7b83368b47]

these will work just fine, they are easy to install and Rockford Fosgate has a reputation for big sound with not alot of power. perfect for what we need.

price from Crutchfield: $169.99 for the whole set


next we need the powered subwoofer: Bazooka RS8A-HP
RS Series 150-watt Powered 8" Bass Tube

[img:7b83368b47]http://pix.crutchfield.com/products/2000/204/L204RS8AHPMT.JPEG[/img:7b83368b47]

this is the expensive part. this deal is $349 but it will be exactly what you are looking for. it has a frequency range up to 250Hz and since your crossover point will be about 100-120Hz for the sub from the crossover, this gives us the extra space we need. i know there is a cheaper model but it does not perform as well as this one and if you skimp on this, it will not have enough power and ability to properly work with the parts you have now.

things you might also want to get (sucks that they are seperate but you don't need them, you just might want them and i do recommend them) are a bass control module and a mounting kit. the bass control module allows you to turn down the gain on the amplifier without having to open the trunk, get a screwdriver and to get to the sub. the mounting kit is self explanitory. the two together will add another 70 bucks to the price of the sub but they are worth the extra cash IMHO.

so total cost for components will be:

$149.99 for the crossover
$169.99 for the component speakers
$349.99 for the amp/sub combo (1 piece)
$ 69.98 for the extra parts for the amp/sub
----------
$739.95 total for parts.

there will be about another 60-75 dollars for wiring parts, including RCA patch cables for the powered sub. the Crutchfield people will be able to help you out with that. also, shipping is not included. but, with those extra costs, you will still be well below 1,000 bucks and you will have the kind of stereo you are looking for. it will be capable of the boom-boom but, under normal listening levels, it will be exactly what you are looking for. and you can always tune the crossover and gain controls to your listening pleasure too.

i know this is kind of pricey but, if you go with this setup, i am positive you will be very pleased. it is very easy to install and if you go with Crutchfield, you wil have extra help, detail instructions with pictures and some free extra parts that make installation a breeze. you talked about upgrading but i think you won't want to do that so this higher cost is a one time deal unless something breaks. but it won't be pushing the limits of anything in the system so you will have a very long life out of this setup. one thing though, let them know that you know about the space issues with the Monsoon system. unless of course there is something that we don't know about. but listen to thier advice. if they warn against it because of custom work being needed well, if you feel you can do it, go for it. if not, you can rethink and we can come up with another plan.


Posted by: RCowan99SSConv

Thanks John!

I found some better prices surfing around...

RFQ1201.. ~$100
FNP2614 $139
Bazooka RS8A-HP ~$219 one place, $259 another

What does it mean 2 1/2" "top mount depth" on the FNP2614 components?

I spent all afternoon today getting the second pair of MB quarts in the back for the meantime. I ran the wires and cut 7/8" spacers from some good plywood with a jigsaw. They worked perfectly! That gave just enough room for the top folding mechanism to clear and the interior trim panels that cover the speakers don't touch them either.

The difference in sound between teh fronts & rears is dramatic because of the mounting. The fronts (in the doors) have significant base. The rears have almost none because they aren't attached to an enclosed volume (even with the top 'up') Those components should work great there.

I haven't used a 'fused distribution block' before but I assume this is a block where the "input" is a big 12V from the battery and it fuses off in the block for amp1, amp2, crossover, & sub? Then I'd need RCAs to go from head to crossover, existing RCAs continue from there to amps.. new RCAs to go back to the sub, new power line from fuseblock to sub, ground from sub to car. Do you have a link to one of those bass control modules? I'm not familiar with those.

I am going to look at the trunk tomorrow to see if that big Bazooka will mount neatly in there. There is a little bit of a ledge right behind where the top sits..It might stand there with room to get the trunk lid down. I think some people make custom ones to fit in the little well on the left side of the trunk, but that would cover the manual release valve for the top. I think the bazooka may barely fit, oriented parallel with the rear axle.


Posted by: John

[quote:4f72c8148e="RCowan99SSConv"]Thanks John!

I found some better prices surfing around...

RFQ1201.. ~$100
FNP2614 $139
Bazooka RS8A-HP ~$219 one place, $259 another
[/quote:4f72c8148e]

if you can find better prices, thats fien. i only gave you Crutchfield and recommended them because of thier level of support that novices often need. if you go for those deals, you will be getting the same thing but you will be on your own if you have a problem. i'm willing to help but there is only so much help that i can give on the Internet.

[quote:4f72c8148e="RCowan99SSConv"]
What does it mean 2 1/2" "top mount depth" on the FNP2614 components?
[/quote:4f72c8148e]

it means that the speaker only extends 2.5 inches below your mounting surface. its mounted on top of your surface. somespeakers can be bolted o the surface from the underside to help hide the speakers. most 70's cars have botoom mount speakrs. but they are harder to assemble and more time consuming making them more expensive to throw in a car. very few ne cars comes with bottom mounting speakrs anymore. it was one of the reasons i chose that Rockford Fosgate spoeaker. its shallow mounting depth in addition to its reputation for strong sound.

[quote:4f72c8148e="RCowan99SSConv"]
I spent all afternoon today getting the second pair of MB quarts in the back for the meantime. I ran the wires and cut 7/8" spacers from some good plywood with a jigsaw. They worked perfectly! That gave just enough room for the top folding mechanism to clear and the interior trim panels that cover the speakers don't touch them either.
[/quote:4f72c8148e]

thats good. the only problem you may end up having is mounting teh tweeters. usually i would just vecro them in to save cutting holes in teh car. but since it is a convertible, that is not an option. some filther fingered pilferer would have no trouble ganking velcroed tweeters when the top was down and you were busy getting yourself a Big Gulp. but i'm sure you will be able to figure out a creative and secure way of mounting them.

[quote:4f72c8148e="RCowan99SSConv"]
The difference in sound between teh fronts & rears is dramatic because of the mounting. The fronts (in the doors) have significant base. The rears have almost none because they aren't attached to an enclosed volume (even with the top 'up') Those components should work great there.
[/quote:4f72c8148e]

well, with that bass tube, it will reinforce the sound coming from behind you and help it blend better. but you want the fronts to sound more powerful than the rears. the rears are there to trick your ears so that it doesn't seem like the sound is coming from the windsheild. another thing you might want to do to ensure better response from teh rear speakers is to use eather stripping between teh speaker mounting flange and the spacer and between teh spacer and whatever you are mounting the spacer too. it will help seal th speaker's two operating zones from each other which can color teh music and cancel out some of the information because it generates white noise having leaks between teh two zones. the two zones i am referring to are teh front of teh speaker and teh back of teh speaker.

[quote:4f72c8148e="RCowan99SSConv"]
I haven't used a 'fused distribution block' before but I assume this is a block where the "input" is a big 12V from the battery and it fuses off in the block for amp1, amp2, crossover, & sub? Then I'd need RCAs to go from head to crossover, existing RCAs continue from there to amps.. new RCAs to go back to the sub, new power line from fuseblock to sub, ground from sub to car. Do you have a link to one of those bass control modules? I'm not familiar with those.
[/quote:4f72c8148e]

what i am reffering to as a fused distribution block is this. it is a block with 1 power input and how ever many power out puts it needs. its literally just a block with fuse holders and a wide seperation between the power source and its dristributed outputs. teh connections for each line are made by fuses rated for whatever accessory is going to be running off of that line. Crutchfield used to have kits for multiple amps that had blocks with them and all the wiring you needed except RCA patch cables.

your existing RCA cables from your head unit to your amps is what would goto the crossover. you would only need 3 more pairs and if you mounted everything in teh trunk, the RCS cables could be quite short and inexpensive.

the grounding just needs a common ground from all amps and crossover to help eliminate noise.

the only bass control i saw was at Crutchfield. you can probably just get that from them. it is a product from SAS who makes the Bazooka Tubes and its designed for them. there is a port on the Bazooka Tube amp that is for that gain controller.

[quote:4f72c8148e="RCowan99SSConv"]
I am going to look at the trunk tomorrow to see if that big Bazooka will mount neatly in there. There is a little bit of a ledge right behind where the top sits..It might stand there with room to get the trunk lid down. I think some people make custom ones to fit in the little well on the left side of the trunk, but that would cover the manual release valve for the top. I think the bazooka may barely fit, oriented parallel with the rear axle.[/quote:4f72c8148e]

if that tube is too big, you can go with a smaller tube like this one:
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/...amp;o=m&a=0

its a 6 inch tube. but you may want 2 of them because they are really designed for htachbacks and pickups where space is limited and a larger sub may over-power the space.

there is also this 8 inch model which isn't as powerful as the 10 sub but it will work just as well. the issue with the 8 and 6 inch subs is thier low end extension and ability to hit hard throughout thier frequency range suffers because of thier size.

here is the 8 inch model.:
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/...amp;o=m&a=0

oh, BTW, i believe that this is the formed custom enclosure you were talking about:
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/...amp;o=m&a=1
[img:4f72c8148e]http://pix.crutchfield.com/products/2001/236/l236CF10Adetail.jpeg[/img:4f72c8148e]

but its for a coupe with a hatch, not a 'vert. it may not work for you at all.


Posted by: RCowan99SSConv

Thanks John,

I discovered someone elses "home brew" for the trunk of these cars.

What is your opinion of this design?
http://members.aol.com/jbslim/JohnnyBs_Garage/JohnnyB2.htm
(click the firebird on the left, then click "custom sub woofer")

Also, I looked today and that bigger bazooka won't fit You can get an idea of the space available from those pics in that link. I'd like to keep the majority of the trunk, so i gotta put it on that little ledge or on the driver's side in that hole.


Posted by: John

ok, coupel of things, those subs look fairly large. ~8-10 inches if i am not mistaken. he lists no dimensions on the site at all for teh box or the speakers. it would be helpful to know what sized speakers he used.

and there is a science to building a sub box. you can't just build a box and throw speakers in it and expect it to work. each manufacturer has a recommended box size and type. the internal dimensions need to be close to what the manufacturer says is optimum otherwise you will not have the frequency response and sensitivity that is advertised. on top of that, there can be no leaks at all, even if the box is a ported box. ports size is dependant on alot of things from speaker cross-setion to the cubic foot displacement of the inside of the box. and depending on the quality of the materials used to build the box, there can be no voids in the material and it has to be sturdy enough to hold up. and unless it is sonically dead, the resonace of the material used to construct the box is going to color the music also. take this as fair warning. there is alot more to building a sub enclosure than most people think.

i think you can get a Bazooka tube to fit in that space. if you want to try to build the same kind of box that guy built, go ahead. but the extra amp, the new subwoofer and the construction materials are going to cost more than getting something like a Bazooka Tube. in addition, the Bazooka Tube can be transfered to other vehicles easily and can be removed very easily for racing.


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