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F-150 Lowering
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Posted by: Patriot1776

If you've looked at my profile, you'll have already seen a description of my present ride. I'm a GM man, and I know this board is more geared toward cars, but I'm on the tightest of budgets and have to make do with what I've got. Besides, with so much imported Iron on the streets nowadays, I think we domestic-performance-minded people need to team up to fend off the Imports.

How much can I lower my '88 F-150 using a rear-axle flip kit, new front springs and a set of dropped I-Beams? C-notching the frame is out of the question, however, and I want the vehicle to remain level. Is C-notching the frame mandatory when going with a flip kit? Ride height's currently stock, and truck is a long-wheelbase two-wheel-drive model.

Posted by: Grape Ape

I suppose this one has been avoided because none of us ever lowered an F-150. Personally, I see absolutely no good in lowering a pickup truck, but I've seen a couple. Notching shouldn't be required, nor should it be done for safety's sake. You can simply flip the springs if you want to, but the front end is another story for sure. For that, sorry, I've got no clue. Lowering the truck will take away from it's capabilities, and could affect handling as well(although it would prolly be better around corners), especially if you don't spend the money to have a GOOD front end alignment done once you lower it.

Posted by: StoneFox

I used to work with a guy that was realy in to the lowerd bling bling truck thing. I tend to agree with the Grape one on this subject, But since I was forced to listen to this guy talk for hours about his truck I guess I can pass some of it on.

There are drop kits to lower a twin I-beam suspension. But there damn expencive and they wont get you that low. If you want to get it realy low there is a kit that converts over to a standard upper and lower controll arm suspension. But it is very expencive.

Posted by: Patriot1776

Yeah, y'all are right. It wouldn't be worth it. The loss in payload would be hard to swallow. Besides, the way the roads are where I live, if I lowered it, it would end up scraping the pavement too much. There aren't that many lowered vehicles where I live anyway because a lot of the roads are older and not very kind to lowered vehicles.

My truck can probably haul more than it's GVWR now though. Why? We swapped a C6 ATX into it out of an F-350 sometime ago because the original AOD tranny gave out. I'm sure of its enhanced capabilities too because we had to borrow an F-350 based bucket truck recently to do some tree trimming. It had a 7.3L diesel (pre-PowerStroke), and a C6 tranny as well.

Posted by: 65fairlane

They say the C-6 is as close to indestructible as you are going to get in a factory automatic...

Posted by: Patriot1776

Quote:


	Originally posted by 65fairlane They say the C-6 is as close to indestructible as you are going to get in a factory automatic...

Better than a TH400?

Posted by: Patriot1776

Yeah, I'm sure that C6 is just laughing at having a sub-200 horse 302 hooked up to it when it was built to handle the power of diesels and big-blocks. I've slammed that tranny hard enough from R to D while backing up to bark the tires, and it's taken that like it was nothing.

Posted by: Patriot1776

Surprisingly though, it shifts pretty smoothly. So smoothly in fact you can't even feel it sometimes. I guess that's from it being hooked up to such a small and weak engine.

Posted by: Grape Ape

Quote:

Originally posted by Patriot1776
Better than a TH400?

If I had to bet on any 3speed automatic being stronger than the TH400, it's the C6. I've seen some wicked power applied to these with mostly stock internals and they seem to hold up well. Mine has the stock planetary gears and sprags in it and my trans builder told me not to be at all concerned untill I wanna try 8.40's or quicker with a 3,000 lb car. He's an expert who builds race trannies every day, so I trust he's right. In fact, the only Ford trannies he'll work on and offer any warranty at all, is the C6. Mine has upgraded parts, but most of the hard parts are still stock. If it breaks, you can bet I'll complain here. :btg:

I'm just surprised yours isn't a truck C4. Those are more common than the C6 in small block applications.

Posted by: Patriot1776

Okay, this may be a dumb question but, the Windsor engines (221, 260, 289, 301, 351W) are supposed to have a different bellhousing bolt pattern than the 429/460 aren't they?

Grape Ape, I have verified that it is a C6 from comparing the bolt pattern of the valvebody cover with charts. Looking on the net at photos of actual C6s has confirmed it's a C6 as well. I guess the F-250/350 it came out of must have had a 351W.

Speaking of transmissions, I read about how Ford turned the 4-spd A4LD/4R55W Explorer/Ranger tranny into a 5-spd. In this tranny family, which is derived by the way from the C3 3-spd, the Overdrive planetary is in front of the main planetary. On the A4LD/4R55W, the Overdrive was engaged in only 3rd, as you'd expect. To get the extra gear on the 5R55W, Ford just simply programmed the Overdrive to engage in 1st (giving 1st Over) as well as 3rd. 1st Over becomes the new 2nd gear. The old 2nd gear then became 3rd; old 3rd, 4th; old 4th or OD, 5th.

I'm guessing simply putting an OD planetary in front of the main planetary is also how Ford created the E4OD/4R100 from the C6, and created the new TorqShift 5-spd automatic by using the same trick as described above.

Posted by: Grape Ape

The only actual "Windsor" is the 351W, but yes, those small blocks use the same bolt pattern. The 429/460 is much, much larger.

Seeing it is a clear indication of which it is, as the C4 has a tiny pan and the C6 has a large pan that's not even close to square in shape.

While I don't know about the technique used in the lighter transmission, I have been told a fe thins about the heavy ones. The E40D/4R100 are taken from the AOD, so I'd guess the C6 is the beginning of them, but they probably don't have the large shafts that came in the C6. The new TorqShift is a completely new design, having an exact look to it of an Allison, who Ford reps say didn't make it. I still wonder about that. It looks nothing like any other Ford transmission to me.

Posted by: Patriot1776

I bet it's a renamed Allison 1000. I don't know of anybody else who makes trannys for these types of vehicles other than Allison, and Allison is GM owned. If it's indeed a renamed Allison 1000, I'm not surprised then by Ford's sales reps denying that, as they're probably trying to keep their most loyal customers from getting the impression that Ford went GM to get the tranny they need to make their trucks competitive with GM's.

If it's not actually made by Allison, it's probably a ripoff of the Allison 1000's design, and Ford may have offered GM a huge sum of money in exchange for GM's permission to copy the Allison 1000. Wouldn't surprise me if it was true.

Posted by: Grape Ape

I'm just not sure what to believe, but I can see your reasoning here. That whole issue is multi-directional though. As it is, if it's an Allison, both GM and Ford are making money from it. There's reason enough for each company to be quiet. Moreso, IMO for GM than Ford, but that's a long thought process.

Posted by: 90lx351

hey patriot shoot me a email at dsouth87@aol.com i have a 87 f-150 lowered, well it was lowered 5 front 7 rear c-notch required but not hard. was on 18's w/ oversized swaybars,beast handled like a vette almost, anyways now its on 20's air suspension and body drop in progress. also with the axle flip/drop beams/progrssive rate springs from belltech there is no loss of payload whatsoever. when it was lowered i loaded firewood up to the top of the cab with my 18's on it and didnt have a problem
i have the efi 4.9 I-6 with the granny box 4 speed shoot me a email

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