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Update(sorta) on "The Grape Ape"
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Posted by: Grape Ape

I took the car to the alignment shop today(after the exhaust shop) and the guys asked me to fire it up. Since the exhaust shop told me they didn't have time till tomorrow, I didn't have my "L" brackets welded up, so... open headers remain. After some contemplation, I started it. I didn't get inside to do that, so I never gassed it. Alarms, including employees alarms, went ballistic and we all got a good laugh.

They wanted me to wait till 6pm or later, but I needed it back to the paint shop, so I didn't wait for that either. So now it's waiting for the final paint work and I've decided to have them do some extra metal work too. I'll get the cost estimate on Saturday, which sucks, because now I know it won't be ready to race on Saturday(when the Ford show happens). I need to do some more tweaking before heading back to the track anyway.

All in all though, I don't feel too badly. It's been running for weeks now, but I've been staring at it while working on the move. Over the last few days, I've adjusted my trans shifter cable, installed the master cylinder and block, and new brake lines, gotten some help and bled the brakes, wired the fans, tightened up the steering column, gone over each system to check for leaks, properly adjusted my throttle cable(after getting it freed up- it was stuck), tied up my fuel lines and trans lines... Just a bunch of work that I'd been putting off due to the move.

So when the paint shop finishes, I'll be able to take it to it's new home.

I'm getting HAPPY FEET! -Steve Martin, "Wild & Crazy Guy" about 1979. It's finally gonna be ready in PURPLE!

Posted by: Tang

Sweet ! Now go get some slips with the beast :burnout:

Posted by: Grape Ape

I gotta get it back 1st... Simmahdonnah!

I've been so busy it's not bothered me much, but I'm getting antsy. Racing other peoples cars just isn't doing it for me. I'm almost prepared to take the S(T)able out and give it a run or two!

Posted by: DeckSetter

Quote:


	Originally posted by Grape Ape I gotta get it back 1st... Simmahdonnah! I've been so busy it's not bothered me much, but I'm getting antsy. Racing other peoples cars just isn't doing it for me. I'm almost prepared to take the S(T)able out and give it a run or two!

Take it! Good ol' Ford 3.8's...if you haven't had head gasket problems, you're lucky!

That's sweet about being so close on the car. Is this one a 408? What gears ya got out back?

Posted by: Grape Ape

It's a 3.0L though, and GUTLESS is an understatement.

It's got an estimated 300,000 miles on it too... Might break! The odometer stopped working at 220,XXX miles and I think it's probably only got about 260,000 or so. Formerly, it belonged to a saleswoman and then my neighbor, who bought it at only 3yrs old. Shocking. I spose I'll replace the speedo cable sometime soon, but I'm too busy(lazy) right now. Besides, I've only put about 150 miles on it so far.

This car has my old 408 in it. I'm gonna drop a 460 into the 91. I did the swap because I wanted a coupe. The gears are currently 3.08's, and while that sounds bad, I expect to go with 3.27's once it's made a few passes and I get it back to the dyno with this "big&ugly" C6 tranny under it. I've found that 3.73's won't allow enough rpm for my goals with my rev limit set at 7,100. I'll also have to test it with 28" tires, which may lead me to 3.55 gears, but I kinda doubt it. Tryig to go 150+ in the 1/4 mile is rough...

Posted by: DeckSetter

300k on a 3.0?! YIKES!!!!!!!!!!

My friend's dad got a '95 Taurus with a knocking 3.8 at a public auto auction for $275 and had his son put an engine in it...my gosh, those cars need more than the 150hp that 3.8 had to offer.....they're really a pretty good size car.......

Posted by: Grape Ape

They are rather large. Not Grand Marquis large, but still. I prefer the 3.8L over the 3.0L personally, but for the menial price I paid, I'll take either. I think this engine is rated at 140hp, but Idonno... It feels like about 66hp.

I'd always heard the 3.0L(Vulcan) engine lasts and lasts, but until I got into this car, I had no idea how true that is. I've obviously looked the engine over and it's about as clean as a field of sand.

I'll do sme things with it once I'm "settled" in the new place. Until then, it merely needs to get me the 100 or less miles per a week I'm currently travelling, around here. My gosh it's slow though. I think some kid passed me on a 20" Huffy last week.

Posted by: Tang

I bet a C6 was a tight fit. Pretty sure you had to do some custom fabbing eh ?

Posted by: Grape Ape

No, it went right in. dimensionally, it's the same size as the AOD as far as I know. Since it came with an AOD, I knew it would fit. It also accepted my original crossmember, but that had to be slightly modified.

Posted by: Tang

I know the C6 is far superior in most cases compared to the C4. Well used to be, now they have C4 parts that are unbelievable, and hell we have T5's that can take 600hp ! . Whats next , a way to make a 7.5 GM rear end strong ?

I know if I get my motor like I want it, the T5 will die quickly. Then I'll go to a C4 and 3500 stall.

Posted by: Grape Ape

I don't like the C4 after having mine basically shatter almost as soon as I took it to the track. I've seen some guys do well with it though, and maybe some are just that much better. The PA C4 is the ONLY version I'd ever consider using again. That's only because it's got a lifetime warranty(if ya pay for it).

Posted by: RacingJason

Quote:


	Originally posted by Grape Ape I don't like the C4 after having mine basically shatter almost as soon as I took it to the track. I've seen some guys do well with it though, and maybe some are just that much better. The PA C4 is the ONLY version I'd ever consider using again. That's only because it's got a lifetime warranty(if ya pay for it).

Keep a PA pile of crap. I'll stay with the innovators. DYNAMIC racing trans. Besides we have 2 (that’s right 2) customers with Mighty Mite C4's with in excess of 1000hp at the crank. No need for a lifetime warranty if the trans is a BEAST.

Besides..."I could take a crap in a box and slap a lifetime guarantee on it, but all you would have is a guaranteed piece of crap.”

Posted by: Grape Ape

Quote:


	Originally posted by RacingJason Keep a PA pile of crap. I'll stay with the innovators. DYNAMIC racing trans. Besides we have 2 (that’s right 2) customers with Mighty Mite C4's with in excess of 1000hp at the crank. No need for a lifetime warranty if the trans is a BEAST. Besides..."I could take a crap in a box and slap a lifetime guarantee on it, but all you would have is a guaranteed piece of crap.”

I see way too many used Mighty Mite trannies for sale to feel comfortable with them. Besides, they don't carry the same warranty and they often cost more than the PA version. I've seen PA's hold up to 8's and most people won't ever need that much security. I got a bit mad at the Dynamic guys too, because I priced their tranny at the 2001 NMRA finals on Saturday(PA didn't show for the event, which also made me mad), when I also priced the much less expensive A.C. version(which is junk), and then Sunday, when I went over to order the Dynamic, they raised the price several hundred dollars and told me they not only didn't have one with them, but would need 30 days to build it due to all the orders they'd taken at the event.

In the end, they wanted about $2,200 for the tranny and that didn't include a converter or bell housing, but did include all mounting items otherwise. At the time, a PA was $1,834 and I could get it in 5 days. I feel the PA and Dynamic are nearly equal in durability and I don't think either one can handle the necessary torque. HP strength is fine, but I think torque and heat kill C4's more commonly than HP. That's why I went to a C6. Of course, my car is light enough now that a C4 would likely work well for a full season. Before, I had a 3200+ lb car that I drove on the street.

Posted by: RacingJason

The reason there are many for sale is that they:

A. Sell loads of them.

B. That is the last stop before a glide (or C-6 for the guys that want to give up 40hp

)

C. Many racers want a new trans and that leaves several used ones for sale.

They back it for 1 year no matter what it is behind (stupid owners are not covered) and we have NEVER needed to warranty ANY C4 from them...not even a street/strip. Hell they even built a 700R4 that is in a Suburban on 38's with a 800 ft/lb turbo diesel. If someone can make that POS last they can make ANYTHING last.

Posted by: Grape Ape

Some of us have 40hp to give...

Besides, anyone STUPID enough to use a PG in a streetcar needs to be shot in each knee cap and told to run!!

I don't think Dynamic makes a bad product. I simply don't think it's any better overall than the Performance Automatic offering. As of yet, nothing I've seen has changed my mind. If they offered a better warranty or price, I might be just as inclined to buy a Dynamic as a PA. Lifetime warranty = better overall product anyway you slice it. I doubt Dynamic sells any more C4's than PA does anyway. Eventually ALL C4's will need replacement because they are a wear item. If I can get the next one for free, it's clearly an advantage for me. But they break too easily to suit me.

I do agree that many for sale are coming from guys upgrading to a better tranny for their setup.

Posted by: Giz

Quote:


	Originally posted by Grape Ape Lifetime warranty = better overall product anyway you slice it.

so a auto zone rebuilt is a better part than a oem new cause of the lifetime warranty many time the cheaper (lower quality ) stuff has a better warranty just to give them a marketing edge

Giz

Posted by: RacingJason

Quote:


	Originally posted by gremlin406 so a auto zone rebuilt is a better part than a oem new cause of the lifetime warranty many time the cheaper (lower quality ) stuff has a better warranty just to give them a marketing edge Giz

DING DING DING....Giz pick anything from the two lower shelves.

Without going into details or making accusations I will just say that it irritates the sh*t out of me when a small company puts all the time and effort into designing something that works and then a larger company comes along tweaks the product a c*nt hair and starts selling it as their own. 1st internal C4 brake...DYNAMIC. 1st Roller planetary...DYNAMIC. ETC ETC.

Posted by: Tang

Quote:


	Originally posted by gremlin406 so a auto zone rebuilt is a better part than a oem new cause of the lifetime warranty many time the cheaper (lower quality ) stuff has a better warranty just to give them a marketing edge Giz

Agreed ! My heater core on the Mustang busted, so I went to Autozone and for like $27 I had one with a LLT warranty. Took me 7 hours that first time to change the damn thing (car had A/C).

3 months later, it busted again ! So refusing to do that job a 3rd time, I went to the Ford place $65. 4 hours to change it that time. That was a couple years ago.

Now my starter come from Autozone. Why ? Because it's easy to get to, a 10 min job to swap it.

Posted by: Giz

Quote:


	Originally posted by Tang Now my starter come from Autozone. Why ? Because it's easy to get to, a 10 min job to swap it.

not mine to change starter remove header and starter at the same time sucks

Giz

Posted by: Tang

Quote:


	I do agree that many for sale are coming from guys upgrading to a better tranny for their setup.

If you're going to be spending that much money on a trans, and are going to a BETTER setup, why not go with a Liberty 5 speed or a Lenko ?

Posted by: Grape Ape

Quote:


	Originally posted by gremlin406 so a auto zone rebuilt is a better part than a oem new cause of the lifetime warranty many time the cheaper (lower quality ) stuff has a better warranty just to give them a marketing edge Giz

Anything to argue, right? We're talking about racing transmissions, not parts stores vs OEM. And for a good round thoughtful addition, there's nobody I know debating between a Dynamic, a PA, and an OEM transmission for a race car. Not only that, a well built and upgraded C4 isn't available from Ford(none are). When's the las time you compared these parts on any level? You're analogy means nothing in a case like this.

Jason, no hard feelings, but let's be honest. The boys at Dynamic are your business friends and the boys at PA aren't. Such is life. I don't see an advantage in buying a Dynamic over a PA. They're very well known in racing as a whole, and clearly, they've not been held at any disadvantage as compared to PA. Dynamic has been deeply rooted in drag racing for 30yrs+ already. They're just not as big with C4's as is PA. But PA is hardly the only other company selling C4's.

Kennis, GoDan(GDI) is said to be among the top line of heater cores. Maybe yours had a problem, but that's rare. The average cost for an aftermarket Mustang htr core is under $20(including AZ's) and most often, a shop will buy from an aftermarket source for items like this. Not because of poor quality though, I promise.

Some of those "upgrading" are infact going to G-Force, Liberty, Lenco, PG's. Many of them are also removing weight from their car at the same time. Some are simply replacing them because they want a "new" replacement of the same trans. They're often for sale though.

Posted by: Giz

Quote:


	Originally posted by Grape Ape Anything to argue, right? We're talking about racing transmissions, not parts stores vs OEM. And for a good round thoughtful addition, there's nobody I know debating between a Dynamic, a PA, and an OEM transmission for a race car. You're analogy means nothing in a case like this. Jason, no hard feelings, but let's be honest. The boys at Dynamic are your business friends and the boys at PA aren't. Such is life. I don't see an advantage in buying a Dynamic over a PA. Kennis, GoDan(GDI) is said to be among the top line of heater cores. Maybe yours had a problem, but that's rare. Some of those "upgrading" are infact going to G-Force, Liberty, Lenco, PG's. Many of them are also removing weight from their car at the same time. Some are simply replacing them because they want a "new" replacement of the same trans. They're often for sale though.

wow ape you should be in goverment that was a slick side step and a barrel of bullshit you spread but in the end your opinion is only yours

Giz

Posted by: Grape Ape

As if you know a thing to speak of about these transmissions? My opinion is based on having used them or known people who have/do. Yours is based on 1 thing, a wild guess. The fact is, AZ doesn't sell anything that remotely equates to these "hard parts" for racing. Therefore, comparing them is useless. Maybe if your car made enough power to break....TRACTION, you'd have a clearer understanding!

Whatever your reason for wanting to instigate a "fight" with me, it's a waste of my time, regardless of yours(and I've proven it by ignoring your silly comments for two weeks now). I could barely fill a thimble with what I honestly believe you know about racing a powerful car, much less a Ford with a C4 transmission.

Posted by: Giz

Quote:


	Originally posted by Grape Ape Whatever your reason for wanting to instigate a "fight" with me, it's a waste of my time, regardless of yours(and I've proven it by ignoring your silly comments for two weeks now). I could barely fill a thimble with what I honestly believe you know about racing a powerful car, much less a Ford with a C4 transmission.

so once again you will make up stuff throw insults and claim youself the winner
ok you win : you are the post whore here
you are the pits " know-it-all"
and don't you have more moving stuff to do it was a lot nicer here when you were not posting

ps do ypou have any current time slips (this year) cause I am sure the OLE MAN has slips on his cars from years ago when he could pass the physical

get over youself -whore some other board and let them see your small penis envy

Posted by: Grape Ape

Giz, I've forgotten more about drag racing than you've managed to learn in what, 58 years? Screw you, WANNABE! I didn't "make up stuff," btw. That's honestly what I think. You shouldn't consider that an insult. It's more like constructive criticism. You don't seem to put much thought into your comments. That too, is what I think.

What has the OLE MAN got to do with this? Get YOUR OWN fast car and stop trying to get other people to fight your battles, WANNABE!

I haven't had time to go drag racing, as I'm moving. Besides that, even YOU are "smart'nuff" to realize I just gave an update about the car. I could go race any number of cars TODAY, but that's not the point of building this new one, now is it!

You also don't know "jack" about C4's, or powerful cars, so leave me alone about it. I'm not JUST the "know-it-all" here, I'm talking about MY OWN CAR, which you know little or nothing about. Obviously I know more about it than you ever will. I'd gladly put my skill level of racing, and building cars against yours any day of the year. I'm that sure I know more about drag racing than you. Don't like it? Sit and spin, pal.

Although my post count is slowly dropping and will drop even more when I start fishing, I post often and I don't care if you like it. You can manage to ignore me if you only try. It might help you get over having chosen such a rolling WRECK for a race car! I won't continue to ingore your useless comments forever. I could tear you up each and every day we post if I were inclined to do so. HOWEVER, since this ISN'T "The Pit," carry your concerns about me over there(or don't), but stop this NONSENSE in a thread I started about my car! You're in the wrong forum for trash. GOT IT? When you're wrong, you're wrong. And you, "sir," are WRONG! Reply or not, I'm going to drop off a load of "stuff" in a while and won't be able to read your whining snivelling remarks until at least tomorrow. Good day.

PS, do you have that 405hp Dodge 3500 diesel yet? :fu2:

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