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Old 11-17-2007, 05:35 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Rice Allowed
Yeah but how much safier is it because of the weight? The new Stang has been getting 5 stars across the board in many test.... Less weight could mean more of a chance not to survive the big one.....depends on where the weight is added....

There are lighter cars getting good safety marks too, I'm sure. But who cares because the Mustang is supposed to be a performer, not a tank. The Corvette doesn't get terrible marks does it? Even the GT weighs less than the GT500 by hundreds. There's truly no excuse for the Mustang to be so heavy.

And if my F-350 slams, at 40mph, broadside into a Mustang that just ran a redlight, I don't care how much it weighs, it's goin' for an uncontrolled ride to PAIN!
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Old 11-18-2007, 02:38 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Grape Ape
There are lighter cars getting good safety marks too, I'm sure. But who cares because the Mustang is supposed to be a performer, not a tank. The Corvette doesn't get terrible marks does it? Even the GT weighs less than the GT500 by hundreds. There's truly no excuse for the Mustang to be so heavy.

And if my F-350 slams, at 40mph, broadside into a Mustang that just ran a redlight, I don't care how much it weighs, it's goin' for an uncontrolled ride to PAIN!




Yeah but you aren't considering the mass or the insurance companies that demand cars to be safier....and it includes pony cars as well...Air bags, side impact bags, traction control.etc... it all makes "You" the driver a bit safier and that is what car companies, insurance companies and the safety people want....It might add weight to the vehicles, but I believe it's worth it....Now, if speed is a must, then you can chop weight yourself, A trailer queen in the making, but it shouldn't be on the road.....I don't want some speed demon hauling a friend or love one and end up in a crash, knowing that one of them could die, because the owner of the car was stupid to remove safety features for speed, including heavy body parts.....You've mentioned the GT500 or the Corvette, have you notice how much they cost? Could you imagine the insurance on them? Get out of the 60's, too many cars on the highway and too many idiots causing accidents today..I'll subsustute a bit of speed for safety...other wise, it'll be a trailer queen...The new Mustangs are heavy, but they are better performers than any Stang from the mid 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's and early 00's....Including speed with handling..With a crash test rating of 5 stars....No reason for you or anyone else to need so much speed on the highway..When I want speed, then I'll remove parts and replace them, but that particular car wont see the highway.....That's the joy of modifying....
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Old 11-18-2007, 03:11 PM   #18
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I didn't see any real crash test results for the newier corvettes, most have them listed as N/A..probably because not as many of them on the road as say, a mustang...3162 lb is what the new Vettes weigh..

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Old 11-18-2007, 04:31 PM   #19
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I guess I don't care much about all the "safety" feature in newer cars much, so I'd rather save the weight.
The biggest problem with all the safety equipment is the fact (spin tested) that it helps create worse drivers. There are too many idiots who think they're safe so they figure who cares (and you know that's true), so we have people driving like nothing matters.
If everyone around was a good driver, would we really need all this stuff? I'd say, pretty much, no.
Saftey glass, crumple zones, strong cabs and good drivers is what we need.
There's another angle though; Ford could crank up the hp in the Mustang quite a bit.
I don't mean the base model, although, I wouldn't mind seein 250-260hp in the base model.
However, they were workin' on some new power plants (one ws a 5.8 liter) that could be used in the GT (or whatever moel they choose).
I don't really care, but I think the Camaro is gonna put a hurt on Mustang sales. And, from what I've read, there will be a huge amount of power available for the Camaro.
As of now, the 2010 Camaro Z/28 will have a 400hp 6 liter V8. No one who knows is telling what the SS (or "high-end" Z/28) might have, but my guess is something over 500hp. Right now, all they're saying is "a big V8". And what's to stop them from dropping in a 7 liter? A supercharged 6 liter? We'll see. And we'll se what it'll weigh.
I'm thinkin', I may own a new Camaro in 2010.
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Old 11-18-2007, 08:00 PM   #20
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I'm thinkin', I may own a new Camaro in 2010.


And I'm thinkin' I'll hafta pay you a visit!!
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Old 11-18-2007, 08:18 PM   #21
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I really don't care about the insurance companies calls for anything, considering insurance is nothing more than a racquet in the 1st place. Safety groups include people who've lost loved ones who drove like idiots as well as those hit by those people. My answer for that is better policing of who drives. Tougher driving tests, tougher enforcement, more cops writing tickets for dangerous drivers instead of wasting time looking specifically for speeding vehicles and lying by saying those are the real danger.

Fact is, bad drivers are the real danger and safer cars have no effect on the person who isn't paying attention, unless they can hit the brakes and steer around what would otherwise be a crash.

The Corvette weighs about 800 lb less than the GT500... There's no reason for such a difference, although 400 is about acceptable considering the Mustang will never get wooden flooring or the like.

My SUV weighs about 4500 lb and it has side curtain airbags, leather, sat radio, dual power front seats, AWD, etc. Mind you, it has those airbags even in the rear. It dwarfs the Mustang from end to end. Why does it weigh under 1000 lb more than even the standard GT, even with more safety equipment and an automatic 5spd? My F-350 weighs about 6000 lb and is some 23' long, has a full frame, is a crewcab and a turbo diesel. There are ways around weight that won't kill safety too. Some of todays cars have 26(maybe more) computers onboard. They also have more than 100 lb of wiring. This stuff controls everything to some degree and most of it is absolutely unnecessary for any vehicle. Most aren't even safety related in any accident prevention sense.
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Old 11-18-2007, 09:12 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Grape Ape
My F-350 weighs about 6000 lb


Idunno bout that. I think it's prolly closer to 7,000 lb. If you ever get a chance, you should roll that bad boy onto a scale. I'd really like to know what that tank weighs, either way.
In any case, it dwarfs a Mustang.
I think I have a pic somewhere to prove this, but ... Basically, your truck was parked in my driveway and one of our Mustangs was parked on it's left and I could even see the Mustang from 30-40 feet away on the right side of the truck. That truck is huge compared to the Mustang.
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Old 11-18-2007, 09:13 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grape Ape
I really don't care about the insurance companies calls for anything, considering insurance is nothing more than a racquet in the 1st place. Safety groups include people who've lost loved ones who drove like idiots as well as those hit by those people. My answer for that is better policing of who drives. Tougher driving tests, tougher enforcement, more cops writing tickets for dangerous drivers instead of wasting time looking specifically for speeding vehicles and lying by saying those are the real danger.

Fact is, bad drivers are the real danger and safer cars have no effect on the person who isn't paying attention, unless they can hit the brakes and steer around what would otherwise be a crash.

The Corvette weighs about 800 lb less than the GT500... There's no reason for such a difference, although 400 is about acceptable considering the Mustang will never get wooden flooring or the like.

My SUV weighs about 4500 lb and it has side curtain airbags, leather, sat radio, dual power front seats, AWD, etc. Mind you, it has those airbags even in the rear. It dwarfs the Mustang from end to end. Why does it weigh under 1000 lb more than even the standard GT, even with more safety equipment and an automatic 5spd? My F-350 weighs about 6000 lb and is some 23' long, has a full frame, is a crewcab and a turbo diesel. There are ways around weight that won't kill safety too. Some of todays cars have 26(maybe more) computers onboard. They also have more than 100 lb of wiring. This stuff controls everything to some degree and most of it is absolutely unnecessary for any vehicle. Most aren't even safety related in any accident prevention sense.



Like I said, todays Mustangs are safier, faster, and have better MPG than it's dinosaur relatives...If any manufacture decides to make a car with less weight and it gets over 400hp..Who would care anyways, probably most here wouldn't ever be able to afford one..You really think a 500hp Camaro will be in any of the majority member's here price range? Manufactures like to charge you galore for a car that is not near as safe if it's built for speed mainly.....How many here have a new Vette or a new GT500? See my point now? Leave the Mustang the way it is...I'll do the rest If I want speed off the highway...

Your SUV will probably Flex way more than a New Mustang will..that's probably why...
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Old 11-18-2007, 09:15 PM   #24
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Big Poo weighs in at 5980 at the local dump and truck scales 1/4 tank and no me. I am fat 220.
Big Poo is a heavy bitch.
The T/A is 3680 with me and full tank of the gas.
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Old 11-19-2007, 09:48 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by No Rice Allowed
Like I said, todays Mustangs are safier, faster, and have better MPG than it's dinosaur relatives...If any manufacture decides to make a car with less weight and it gets over 400hp..Who would care anyways, probably most here wouldn't ever be able to afford one..You really think a 500hp Camaro will be in any of the majority member's here price range? Manufactures like to charge you galore for a car that is not near as safe if it's built for speed mainly.....How many here have a new Vette or a new GT500? See my point now? Leave the Mustang the way it is...I'll do the rest If I want speed off the highway...

Your SUV will probably Flex way more than a New Mustang will..that's probably why...


My 1991 Mustang LX 5.0 got a 25mpg highway rating. Todays Mustang is rated at 23 with a 5spd manual. So much for better mpg. The new one is more powerful though.

I'll agree they're safer, but I never died in mine... Driver makes a difference. I was hit in my 90LX and it sustained over 6K in damage, but I lived. Point is, I don't need a safer car, I need safer drivers.

The reason more members here, and people across the country, don't have more Corvettes and the like isn't just price. I could buy one, but won't. It's only got 2 seats and one purpose. Nearly the same could be said for the current Mustang GT or GT500.

My SUV may appear to flex more than a new Mustang, but it probably won't. It has more "body roll" because of its higher center of gravity and more forgiving suspension. It was made to drive on something other than pavement, afterall. Brand new, the Mustang is altogether more stable and controllable by design. In a few yrs though, the vehicle with the 700 lb frame will twist less than the one without.
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Old 11-19-2007, 11:39 AM   #26
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Grape you said there is no reason for 800lbs difference in a GT500 and a Vette. Well, how about a back seat? How about a heavy ass iron block truck engine with a blower? How about more "car" overall?

Why are we comparing two cars that aren't even in the same class?

I love the new stangs. They have more room than previous generations, and ride, handle, and feel 10x better than anything before them. And when I could keep my foot out of the gas I could average 27 MPG on the highway driving it to work.

I drove an automatic coupe GT 200 miles north for a dealer trade last year and it averaged 30 MPG!!! on the highway before I hit the mtns. of VA then it of course dropped.

Hell my son loves riding it our car. He fits in the back seat behind my wife just fine. And my wife who is 5ft 9 can fit in the back seat behind me (6ft4) if someone else rides with us and needs to sit in the front.

My only real problem with the new Mustangs are the location of the cup holder in the center console. If there is anything taller than a 12oz can in it then it makes it ackward to change gears.

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Old 11-19-2007, 12:55 PM   #27
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The new Mustang has more room overall, perhaps. It has more up front from the looks. But it clearly has less room where it's needed in the rear seating area. When my 90 or 91 were stock, I had no problem sitting in the back seat. I can't see me having a place for my legs and feet in the rear of the current model. The hatchback Fox had more room in the very rear too, but this model has a really long front end.

The Corvette has a lighter, aluminum engine. It isn't like Ford couldn't use the aluminum 5.4L or 4.6L in the current Mustang. That would shave off about 100 lb from the front all by itself, and it would probably help make the car safer at the same time. Ford could also make an aluminum engined 400hp version of the car in N/A form, saving weight. They could even turbocharge the car, saving weight. There are many things which could result in a lighter, more responsive, better handling and quicker Mustang.

As for mileage, I got 23mpg with mine, even after seeing nearly 370rwhp(N/A), so better economy isn't a problem if it's approached correctly. When stock, the 91 had no trouble with 25mpg even with the AOD.

The new automatic GT averages only 22mpg according to Ford. If you got 30, you got lucky... Otherwise, Ford needs to recalculate averages and publicize it bigtime. If they'll get 30, Ford telling people 22 is a very bad idea. That may well be the case too, since the GT500 is rated about the same.

I don't dislike the overall car. I simply think Ford should make appropriate changes to a car they are pushing in a "performance" sense. The Mustang is seen as a performance car and it's weight is a big deterent along with it's relatively low horsepower. When I see 260+hp from a Ford product out of just a V6, it's very clear they can do better with 2 more cylinders if they only want to do better.

Even the 3.0L in the fusion has a higher hp rating than the 4.0L in the V6 Mustang. Where's the sense in that? The 3.5L in the Taurus makes more hp and more torque. Not to mention both Nissan and GM use a smaller V6 which make over 300hp. Ford simply isn't stepping in the right direction in the performance market right now. Instead, it seems there sitting on the laurels awaiting the next company to do what Ford could and hoping it doesn't cost them more sales. As we've seen by recent sales reports, it is costing sales.
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Old 11-19-2007, 02:34 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grape Ape
I really don't care about the insurance companies calls for anything, considering insurance is nothing more than a racquet in the 1st place. Safety groups include people who've lost loved ones who drove like idiots as well as those hit by those people. My answer for that is better policing of who drives. Tougher driving tests, tougher enforcement, more cops writing tickets for dangerous drivers instead of wasting time looking specifically for speeding vehicles and lying by saying those are the real danger.

Fact is, bad drivers are the real danger and safer cars have no effect on the person who isn't paying attention, unless they can hit the brakes and steer around what would otherwise be a crash.



You'll never end bad drivers, like you wont end criminals from stealing..Not gonna happen, So..Manufactures do the next best thing..make the cars so it can be safe.."IF" needed...Tougher Driving test and so forth, isn't going to end that smuck that is late for work and needs to be on time or will be fired if not....Weaving in and out of traffic to get to point B....No matter how many tickets you give, you'll never end the bad drivers..They'll drive on a suspended license if needed....That's why the cars need to be safier..too many people on the highway and too many who will attempt to break a few laws along the way to get to point "B" faster....Even the safe drivers at times....If their job is on the line, they'll fracture a few laws....You'll never end that! The Mustang is a pony car first..Has always been..The first ones weren't that fast...Sporty...A musclecar "IT" can be....The V6 Stang is the most popular Stang..Not the V8..Wonder Why that is?

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Old 11-19-2007, 02:48 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grape Ape
The new Mustang has more room overall, perhaps. It has more up front from the looks. But it clearly has less room where it's needed in the rear seating area. When my 90 or 91 were stock, I had no problem sitting in the back seat. I can't see me having a place for my legs and feet in the rear of the current model. The hatchback Fox had more room in the very rear too, but this model has a really long front end.

The Corvette has a lighter, aluminum engine. It isn't like Ford couldn't use the aluminum 5.4L or 4.6L in the current Mustang. That would shave off about 100 lb from the front all by itself, and it would probably help make the car safer at the same time. Ford could also make an aluminum engined 400hp version of the car in N/A form, saving weight. They could even turbocharge the car, saving weight. There are many things which could result in a lighter, more responsive, better handling and quicker Mustang.




The Corvette is what a 40-50 something dollar vehicle?? I'm sorry but the Stang was designed as a Quick, sporty looking car on a budget..A bang for the dollar pony car..If you wanted more speed, then you did the work....I don't really care if a 500+hp production Mustang ever got made......That's what the GT500 is for...
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Old 11-19-2007, 05:51 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by No Rice Allowed
You'll never end bad drivers, like you wont end criminals from stealing..Not gonna happen, So..Manufactures do the next best thing..make the cars so it can be safe.."IF" needed...Tougher Driving test and so forth, isn't going to end that smuck that is late for work and needs to be on time or will be fired if not....Weaving in and out of traffic to get to point B....No matter how many tickets you give, you'll never end the bad drivers..They'll drive on a suspended license if needed....That's why the cars need to be safier..too many people on the highway and too many who will attempt to break a few laws along the way to get to point "B" faster....Even the safe drivers at times....If their job is on the line, they'll fracture a few laws....You'll never end that!


Oh C'mon! We could end it ... All we need to do is go back to hangin' thieves, problem solved. And start cutting off body parts as a punishment for bad driving. That'll solve that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by No Rice Allowed
The V6 Stang is the most popular Stang..Not the V8..Wonder Why that is?

Of course, there are many reasons people buy what the buy. Cost (of the car and insurance and fuel) being the most popular reason. I'm pretty sure the majority of Mustang owners won't tell you it's because they didn't want the extra power.

I have to say, I like the new Mustang and I think the V6 power isn't too bad. But like most people, I wouldn't mind if it had more power.
I thought access to the rear seats was quite limited, but once I got in, it wasn't too bad. However, I wouldn't want to be in there for a long time. I guess I didn't even notice the cup holder issue because I can't remember it being a problem. Maybe it's just because the Mustang I rented had an automatic.
Anyway, I don't have a problem with the new Mustang. Overall, I think it's a cool car.
On the other hand, the GT could use more power and/or less weight. It is possible to do both, as proven by many cars (some made by Ford) that wiegh less and are just as safe as any Mustang (more power being easily obtainable).
My wife's Focus, for example, has air bags everywhere, yada, yada, yada, right up to the 5 star rating and doesn't have the the weight of a Mustang.
I suspect the Charger will be a heavy pig (I could be wrong), but, somehow, I doubt the Camaro will be so heavy. We'll see.
If Chevy produces a decently priced pony car with real go, I'll prolly buy one. In this regard, at least IMHO, Ford missed the mark. The Shelby GT500 is a cool car and all. But, I'm sure I could buy a Mustang GT and build it to stomp a Shelby GT500 for a boat load less money. But, I've been saying (and doing) this for years (save for the last few), so I'm biased.
I just wish SOMEBODY would produce a nice little pony car with power and nimble handling at a reasonble price! I really don't care who makes it. The first one who does will sell at least one.
Then again, I'm workin' on another old fox body and I don't need a new monthly bill, so I guess it doesn't matter what they do.
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