Ok, I'm looking to get some Speer Gold Dot ammo for my pistol, but I can't decide which weight. Generally, people think a heavier bullet will result in less velocity and more energy, but that don't seem to be the case. So here is the 2 I'm trying to decide between.

Now, why don't you super smart fookers tell me why it's better to use the 147 for personal protection ? Is it because it makes a bigger hole ? I was looking to get the 14gr +p Gold Dots, but they are meant for guns with a barrel under 4", with a 4" barrel like my gun has, they cause over penetration.

Speer GDHP 124gr
Velocity
Muzzle- 1150
50 yards- 1030
100 yards- 948
Energy
Muzzle- 364
50 yards- 292
100 yards- 247
Bullet Coefficient
.134

Speer GDHP 147gr
Velocity
Muzzle- 985
50 yards- 960
100 yards- 924
Energy
Muzzle- 317
50 yards- 301
100 yards- 279
Bullet Coefficient
.164

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I'm easy to get along with, once people learn to see it my way

Tang,

Do yourself a favor and forget the 147-gr 9mm stuff.

If you have a newer gun that will handle it, I recommend a 115-gr Cor-Bon +P Jacketed hollow point, at 1300+ FPS

The best standard pressure 9mm load is the Federal 115 grain JHP
(9BP).

Other excellent standard pressure 9mm loads are the
Winchester Silvertip 115 grain (X9MMSHP), Federal 124 grain Hydra-shok
(P9HS1) and Federal Nyclad 124 grain (P9BP) JHP. The Nyclad may feed
better (than the metal-jacketed 9BP) in some older guns - such as
Browning Hi-Powers - which is good enough reason to use it in your older
pistol. It is nearly equal to the excellence of the 9BP in terminal
performance.

For guns that may jam with the Cor-Bon or Federal 115 grain
hollow-points, the Remington 115 grain +P JHP is a good choice (R9MM6).
For older guns I would use the Remington standard pressure 115 gr. JHP
(R9MM1).

__________________
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Better to stay silent and let them wonder, than to speak and remove all doubt.
Never wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
Never try to teach a pig to sing, it's a waste of time and you run the risk of offending the pig.
Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and win with experience.

P, my gun is a Ruger P93DC , made in 1997 . 4" barrel and weighs 32oz. I was under the impression +p's in a 4" barrel would cause more penetration than expansion. But I guess it depends on what speed the maker intended on the bullet traveling. For example the Gold Dots ideal speed for the 9mm is 1155, out of a 4" barrel they go upwards of 1300.

__________________
I'm easy to get along with, once people learn to see it my way

The Cor-Bon Self Defense ammo is

9MM+P 90gr JHP 1500fps/450ftlbs
9MM+P 115gr JHP 1350fps/466ftlbs
9MM+P 125gr JHP 1250fps/434ftlbs

The Pow'RBall is

Pow'Rball 9MM +P 100gr Pow'Rball 1475fps/483ftlbs

That is kickin' ass for a 9mm round.

__________________
I'm easy to get along with, once people learn to see it my way

Here are some words of wisdom from a very reliable and accepted source:


First Class pistols are ultra-reliable and high-quality new guns than can
feed any hollowpoint and tolerate +P loads with no problems:

SIG/Sauer P220, P225, P226, P228. Czech CZ75 and CZ-85. Walther
P5, P5C, and P88. Heckler and Koch USP, P7, P7M8 and P7M13. All Glocks.
All Ruger 9mm pistols. Taurus PT-99, PT-92 and PT-92C. Steyr GB. Beretta
92 series. Browning BDM and Hi-Power (only if it says "Portugal" on the
slide). All Smith & Wessons with a four-digit model number (e.g. 5906,
3913, 6904, 5903) and the Smith & Wesson 915. Star M28, M30, M31, and all
Firestars, Megastars, and Ultrastars.

Second Class pistols are high quality guns that may not feed all
hollowpoints reliably. Remington 115 gr. hollowpoints are recommended for
these guns:
Smith & Wessons with two or three digit model numbers (e.g. 659,
39-2, 469, 59, 39). Heckler and Koch VP70 and P9S. Beretta "Brigadier"
M1951 and the Egyptian copy, the Interarms "Helwan." Colt M2000
"All-American" (now discontinued, for good reason), Colt Series 70
Government Model, Series 70 Commander. Astra A-70, A-75 and A-100. AMT
"On Duty." Daewoo DP-51. Bersa 'Thunder 9'. EAA Witness, and all other
CZ-75 copies (e.g. Tanfoglio, Tanarmi). Taurus PT-908. Walther P4. Star
BK, BKM, Model B and 'Super.' Browning Hi-Powers without the word
"Portugal" on the slide. Llama Model 82. IMI "Jericho" and "Kareen."
Springfield Armory P9.

Third Class pistols should generally be loaded with ball for best
reliability:
Walther P38, P4 or P1. Luger. Llama. Maverick. MKS Model JS.
Intratec CAT-9, DC-9, KG-9, etc. SWD Cobray Model 11/9 and similar
models. Scarab Scorpion. Kimel AP-9. Bryco Jennings Model 59. All KBI
Hungarian pistols (e.g. GKK, PJ9C, P9HK and other "FEG" products).
"Norinco" or "Sportarms" Chinese Tokarev pistols. Lahti. Radom. MAB P15
and Model 1950.


Your gun is listed as a first class firearm, but if your gun wasn't listed, then compare it as close as you can to one that is. In the end, there's no substitute for training with "the" ammo you plan to carry, and this can get expensive. When in doubt, default down to a lower grade of ammo for the "second class" pistols, for instance, to be sure you don't end up with some fancy polished brass looking ammo in a fancy box that will jam when you need it.

Bottom line, 147-gr 9-mm ammo sucks.


Mr. P

__________________
.







Better to stay silent and let them wonder, than to speak and remove all doubt.
Never wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
Never try to teach a pig to sing, it's a waste of time and you run the risk of offending the pig.
Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and win with experience.

ISince you brought it up, I have read great things about the 9MM+P 115gr JHP 1350fps/466ftlbs from Cor-Bon. It is a little cheaper, and has great expansion, not to mention consistent penetration. I like the looks of the Pow'rBall, but as you said, that can get expensive practicing. Especially when you consider its going to cost around $14 to fill one of my magazines, then I have 5 left overs. I have three 15-round mags and 1 ten round for it. Thats 55 rounds, that means I need 3 boxes to fill'em. But most of the time I leave the 10 round for a practice mag, and leave the others loaded with hollow points.

Decisions Decisons.

Right now I have regular Winchester USA 115gr JHP's 1225fps/383ft lbs , which now that I think of it, isn't a bad round. http://www.winchester.com/products/...IEx1Z2Vy&type=7

The loads I practice with are Winchester USA FMJ's 1190fps/362ft lbs . That's very similar to the JHP's, so I see it should be acceptable to practice with the FMJ's, insteads of shooting up hollow points in paper.

__________________
I'm easy to get along with, once people learn to see it my way

Hey TANG, if its for self defense you probibly wouldn't see much real difference between most of the ammo shown. As long as your shots are placed well enough and penetration is suffecent it should do the job.

If you don't hit any vitals it probibly won't matter what kind of 9mm ammo your shooting. If they don't fall over dead right away, you're in trouble.

__________________
I was born a Ford man, I've just been in denial for 28 years.

Two to the chest, one to the head. Learned that from those guys I was shooting guns with last saturday.

__________________
I'm easy to get along with, once people learn to see it my way

Here is some "good" information regarding the weenie loads. In a 9mm, you better use the right load, or you're going to make someone real mad. Remember, the Pope took what, something like 5 or 6 hits with a 9mm. Wrong ammo, and of course, he had a little help from above.

Mr. P


Now it is time to impart some crucial information: NEVER use 147
grain ammo in a 9mm pistol! There was a stupid fad for 147 grain
hollowpoints a few years ago, and many were suckered into buying these
weak, worthless and malfunction-prone rounds. I don't care what you've
heard: never use any 9mm hollowpoint heavier than 125 grains. 147 grain
hollowpoints often jam in many popular 9mm guns like the Browning
Hi-Power, SIG, Beretta 92, S&W and Glock. Ignore the gun magazine hype
and stick to what works. If you want to gamble, go to Reno. Don't gamble
with your life. 147 grain ammo sucks.

German GECO "Blitz Action Trauma" or BAT 9mm rounds are a
proven man-stopping design. Called the "GECO Action Safety" in Europe,
this is a high velocity (1400 feet per second) lightweight (86 grain)
hollow bullet that has proven itself to be reliable and successful on the
street. I recommend them, but they are very tough to find. Save yourself
the trouble and use good 115 grain hollowpoints like the Cor-Bon or
Remington +P or Federal 9BP.

Bad 9mm Loads to avoid (and certainly NEVER carry). Numbers given.

Federal Gold Medal 9mm 147 grain JHP (9MS)
Federal Hydra-Shok 9mm 147 grain JHP (P9HS2)
Winchester 147 grain 9mm Silvertip Subsonic JHP (X9MMST147)
Winchester 147 grain 9mm Black Talon JHP (S9MM)
Winchester 147 grain 9mm Super-X Subsonic (XSUB9MM)
Remington 147 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM8)
Remington 147 grain 9mm Golden Saber JHP (GS9MMC)
Remington 140 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM7)
Remington 88 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM5) This bullet is far too light.
CCI Lawman 147 grain 9mm PHP "Plated Hollow Point" (3619)

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.







Better to stay silent and let them wonder, than to speak and remove all doubt.
Never wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
Never try to teach a pig to sing, it's a waste of time and you run the risk of offending the pig.
Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and win with experience.

I will tell you what I learned from those cops and military guys I shot with.

No matter what kind of pistol you shoot someone with, they won't flip over backwards like they do in movies. Some 9mm wounds don't actually "register" in the bad guys mind, because the holes dont actually bleed very much. Thats where the .45 come in at. It leaves a big hole that bleeds a lot, and sometimes can psycologically stop the bad guy because he sees blood and thinks "oh shit I'm dying", but this isn't always the case either.

You can shoot a man, directly in the heart with a .45 slug, and blow his heart to chunks. He still has 4 MINUTES to kill you. After 3 mins, his vision will tunnel out, but he can keep shooting. Up until 3 mins, he can still aim and shoot you. Thats why, 2 to the chest, 1 to the head.

__________________
I'm easy to get along with, once people learn to see it my way

Hey P, if those 100gr Cor-Bons will go 1475fps/483ftlbs out of a 4" pistol barrel, what will they do out of a 16 1/4" barrel ?

I am looking at the Ruger PC9. It will accept my Ruger pistol mags. People kill Deer with 9mm's all the time, so this would be a fun little rifle to have around, and be useful.

__________________
I'm easy to get along with, once people learn to see it my way

forget trying to kill anything with a 9mm.

A .357 with Hornady hunting loads is the smallest power you want to use for deer. 180-gr .357

Nothing in a 9mm is satisfactory for a clean kill on deer.

This advice is worth every penny you paid for it

Mr; P

__________________
.







Better to stay silent and let them wonder, than to speak and remove all doubt.
Never wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
Never try to teach a pig to sing, it's a waste of time and you run the risk of offending the pig.
Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and win with experience.

Fine fine, Ill just use one of these then. My uncle will let me take his out a'huntin

__________________
I'm easy to get along with, once people learn to see it my way

Quote: Originally Posted by Mr. P A .357 with Hirnadt huntubg kiads is the smallest power you want to use for deer. 180-gr .357 Nothing in a 9mm is satisfactory for a clean kill on deer.

My dad kills deer with a .22. I didn't believe it until I saw it.



He does it illegally though. He puts a pile of apple-mash (from the apple cider maker up the street) in his front lawn. He's got his flood lights pointed right at the pile. He waits for some deer to come to dinner. Quietly steps on to the front porch. Gets his gun in their general direction. signals to his wife to turn on the light, so he can see them. Bang! one shot, right to the temple. Deer drops on a dime.

I don't agree with it...but at least he eats every bit of what he kills.

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Chris M.
SF Bay Area, CA
'06 Nissan Frontier 4.0 crew cab
'98 Explorer 5.0
No more Slow Nova